Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[OneCity]

The subway is not coming to Mississauga City Centre....there is no desire to push it that far west...and, more importantly, there is no request to.

Oh Contraire.

Vaughan solidified this extension. Lucky for Sauga when their time comes the Toronto Star and Metroland wont be putting many resources to attack. There wont be any stubborn council opposition going all out in an attempt to force in a line with a transfer one stop in front of MCC. It wont be waddled down to one stop. Im mean look at all those stops they want? Itll slide right thru like Richmond Hill in the near future and recently in Vaughan. But Scarborough Centre?

https://www.insauga.com/its-time-to-build-a-subway-to-square-one

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Sorry if this sounds crass, but that's just rubbish. For every Warden or Kennedy, both areas slated for redevelopment mind you, there's:

High Park:

Victoria Park:

Islington:

Downsview:

North York Centre:

None of these developments would have occurred in the absence of subways.

High Park and Islington would have. Islington is a jobs centre and High Park was around when there was streetcars.

well, when I look at the pictures posted by Hopkins123 a few posts up....I don't see any of them that are more dense than Mississauga City Centre (North York may be equal but not "more") and that Victoria Park picture looks like a slightly less dense version of the Bramalea City Centre area.

Two areas that not only do not have subways....they do not have railed transit at all.

I am sure there are other examples.

I have no doubt that a subway aids in densification....but I can't agree with the statement that density cannot happen without a subway.

I agree.

People will only invest if they feel their money is safe and they will flock to areas planned for growth with high quality investment,

Mississauga has:

1.An airport
2. Four - 400 series highways & the QEW
3. A seamless North-South LRT proposed amongst other rapid transit projects
4. A Municipally focused business and growth plan that puts itself as a priority

And more importantly Mississauga is not on the TTC. Mississauga is flooded in Government investments past and present. People invest there at a high level, because the Government has. We'd all be foolish after seeing whats going on in Vaughan and Richmond Hill to think the subway is never coming one day. But only Scarborough can be obstructed locally to the extent we've seen.

Scarborough has:

1.401
2.A RT with a transfer right before its Core.
3.No Municipally focused plan as the City Priority to make this Core a major focal point

Although it resides in Toronto and is on the TTC, its Core is not even connected to the TTC's main infrastructure. We decided long ago we are not building any more highways in Toronto (which includes Scarborough) It has such a great opportunity to develop due to its geographical vicinity to the City if its migrated in a similar manner to comparable areas. Really not hard for me to understand why many Scarborough residents want a high form of investment for its Core and not just a better local network.

So then the real problem is STC is in the wrong place. It should be between Kennedy and Birchmount. Part of the reason why STC is lacking development is that it's too far out. The subway won't fix this. I wish people would admit this is a vote buying exercise. So go ahead with it, but let's be honest here.

Mississauga City Centre is the area that I mentioned....not impacted by the QEW.....none of the development there is significantly impacted by the airport and most of it happened before the LRT was a glimmer in anyone's eye......but, interestingly, your list kinda proves that subways are not the only way to spur density/development.




The subway is not coming to Mississauga City Centre....there is no desire to push it that far west...and, more importantly, there is no request to.

]


Oh Contraire.

Lucky for Sauga when their time comes the Toronto Star and Metroland wont be putting many resources to attack. There wont be any stubborn council opposition going all out in an attempt to force in a line with a transfer one stop in front of MCC. It wont be waddled down to one stop. Im mean look at all those stops they want? Itll slide right thru like RH in the near future and recently in Vaughan. But Scarborough Centre?

https://www.insauga.com/its-time-to-build-a-subway-to-square-one

View attachment 107257

The problem is that this is not official, the theory is a one stop extention to Cloverdale Mall to help with congestion. If this happens Missiaauga needs to be on board. My problem is the Liberals would use this as an excuse not extend service on the Milton Line.

 

[OneCity]

High Park and Islington would have. Islington is a jobs centre and High Park was around when there was streetcars.
So then the real problem is STC is in the wrong place. It should be between Kennedy and Birchmount. Part of the reason why STC is lacking development is that it's too far out. The subway won't fix this. I wish people would admit this is a vote buying exercise. So go ahead with it, but let's be honest here.

The problem is that this is not official, the theory is a one stop extention to Cloverdale Mall to help with congestion. If this happens Missiaauga needs to be on board. My problem is the Liberals would use this as an excuse not extend service on the Milton Line.

Very much disagree as SCC is in a very solid location. It has been tarnished by the RT and the last decade of indecision. It has done well to even be where it is considering the RT. Bigger problem is the old Amalgamated Mega City and it old suburbs has been starved of sufficient capital to grow and expand thru out that Politicians want to chop down the investment in all other areas in hope of scraping a few more scraps for themselves.


I think its very naïve to think it's not in the cards for the Province to woo the 905 riding. Vaughan -check, RH-they are pushing, then Sauga.

 

[steveintoronto]

Oh Contraire.

Vaughan solidified this extension. Lucky for Sauga when their time comes the Toronto Star and Metroland wont be putting many resources to attack.

Well what relief are you offering for the B-D subway to allow for room on it for Torontonians?

There wont be any stubborn council opposition going all out in an attempt to force in a line with a transfer one stop in front of MCC. It wont be waddled down to one stop. Im mean look at all those stops they want? Itll slide right thru like Richmond Hill in the near future and recently in Vaughan. But Scarborough Centre?

lol...that's right, and look at the price:

At a cost of approximately $300 million per kilometre to build a subway, $1.6 billion would essentially pay for a subway from Kipling to Hurontario Street, (almost half of the total 12.2 kilometre line). This assumes expensive tunnel boring is required; however, given the wide rights of way on both Dundas Street and Hurontario Street, it may be possible to use an open dig method, which could substantially reduce costs.

Although purely an opinion of the writer, if Scarborough TC could be reached for this sum, with stations all along the way, you'd be living in Fat City.

It's an odd thing, Mayor Crombie won't be campaigning to spend every transit penny they have, and more, to build this.

They have better things to campaign for, like The Missing Link.

 

[OneCity]

Well what relief are you offering for the B-D subway to allow for room on it for Torontonians?

We get it. The DRL will get built when the Province sees opportunity to buy votes. Tell downtown residents to stop religiously voting Liberal and it might happen sooner when they need support like the 905.

The price of these subways are much more "affordable" and worthwhile for vote buying then the DRL. We all know the DRL needed, but this is the reality

 

[LNahid2000]

It's an odd thing, Mayor Crombie won't be campaigning to spend every transit penny they have, and more, to build this.

They have better things to campaign for, like The Missing Link.

The Mississauga Transitway has faster average speeds than the subway anyway, and is far more flexible since routes can leave the Transitway to get people closer to where they want to go.

 

[micheal_can]

The Mississauga Transitway has faster average speeds than the subway anyway, and is far more flexible since routes can leave the Transitway to get people closer to where they want to go.

And that is why Ottawa is laying down track on theirs?

 

[LNahid2000]

And that is why Ottawa is laying down track on theirs?

Because it's a completely different situation. Ottawa's BRT didn't work well in a congested downtown. Mississauga doesn't have the same problem.

Also, Ottawa isn't getting rid of their entire BRT system in favour of LRT.

 

[steveintoronto]

The Mississauga Transitway has faster average speeds than the subway anyway, and is far more flexible since routes can leave the Transitway to get people closer to where they want to go.

There's nothing sexy about it, not like rails, but I must admit, those buses fly along there, and they'd go even faster if there was stop only on request both at the station and on the bus. It's my preferred way into TO from K/W and Guelph to Square One rather than waiting forever for the 41H, which also takes forever to get downtown, and then I have to take transit to get back to Dundas West. Needless to say, Islington to Dundas West is direct and frequent, although no co-fare yet. Once the remaining stations are opened on the busway, it will be even faster.

It can, of course, be converted later to LRT.

 

[steveintoronto]

And that is why Ottawa is laying down track on theirs?

Transitway conversion to LRT will NOT deliver faster travel times

 

[LNahid2000]

There's nothing sexy about it, not like rails, but I must admit, those buses fly along there, and they'd go even faster if there was stop only on request both at the station and on the bus. It's my preferred way into TO from K/W and Guelph to Square One rather than waiting forever for the 41H, which also takes forever to get downtown, and then I have to take transit to get back to Dundas West. Once the remaining stations are opened on the busway, it will be even faster.

Two stations are opening tomorrow . And then there will only be one station left, which will open in a few months.

 

[micheal_can]

Because it's a completely different situation. Ottawa's BRT didn't work well in a congested downtown. Mississauga doesn't have the same problem.

Also, Ottawa isn't getting rid of their entire BRT system in favour of LRT.

Look at Phase 2.

Also, their system is over 20 years old.

 

[steveintoronto]

Two stations are opening tomorrow . And then there will only be one station left, which will open in a few months.

I thought it wasn't until next year! Whoa, great news, as it was like a huge withdrawal when the bus had to pull up onto the clogged and indirect roads, let alone doing the convoluted road thing. I'm intrigued also about the ramp onto the 427.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Very much disagree as SCC is in a very solid location. It has been tarnished by the RT and the last decade of indecision. It has done well to even be where it is considering the RT. Bigger problem is the old Amalgamated Mega City and it old suburbs has been starved of sufficient capital to grow and expand thru out that Politicians want to chop down the investment in all other areas in hope of scraping a few more scraps for themselves.


I think its very naïve to think it's not in the cards for the Province to woo the 905 riding. Vaughan -check, RH-they are pushing, then Sauga.

But let's look.
York -Eglinton West didn't have a subway and is decent imo
East York - Pape, Woodbine, Bayview South and Coxwell/Cosburn are decent centres.
Etobicoke - Kipling/Dundas/Islington, central and not more then 30 mins from any part of Etobicoke
North York - Right on Yonge. Has a lot of Jobs
Scarborough - Near McCowan, in the east, east of Kennedy Road. People in the Pharmacy area are close to the Old City, East York and North York. Part of the reason for the route wars was how much cost McCowan and even Markham Road might have added.

If STC was closer, it would have eliminated a lot of the distance arguments people used against this project.

IMO, just cloverdale in the West. Mississauga wants the Milton all day service, which should have happened already.

 

[LNahid2000]

Look at Phase 2.

Also, their system is over 20 years old.

Not sure how this relates to the Mississauga Transitway or Scarborough in any way.