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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

This all boils down to one mayor stoking a transit inferiority complex in Scarborough and another indulging it.

The pro-Scar subway types are going to extract respect from the rest of the city by making it pay for this one stop subway. In practical terms in it will convenience some but it will inconvenience many others. But that's almost unimportant. The prevailing factor is that it will make Scarberians feel on par with the rest of the city and not second-class to downtown. Unfortunately the sum of low-information, ego, pandering and inertia in this city is greater than that of dispassionate consideration and political integrity.

"But I repeat for the hundredth time, there is one case, one only, when man may consciously, purposely, desire what is injurious to himself, what is stupid, very stupid--simply in order to have the right to desire for himself even what is very stupid and not to be bound by an obligation to desire only what is sensible. Of course, this very stupid thing, this caprice of ours, may be in reality, gentlemen, more advantageous for us than anything else on earth, especially in certain cases. And in particular it may be more advantageous than any advantage even when it does us obvious harm, and contradicts the soundest conclusions of our reason concerning our advantage--for in any circumstances it preserves for us what is most precious and most important--that is, our personality, our individuality."
I don't think Tory even wants the SSE, he just wants something to get built. He also knows that the Liberals hold a lot of sway in this town and the SSE is strongly supported by the Scarborough Liberal MPP's, the Minister, the Premier, and likely a bunch of federal Liberals as well (since the Trudeau organization is basically the same as the provincial one).

Maybe if Tory had the confidence to know that the Liberals would be defeated in the upcoming election, he could call out the Liberals and change plans. But with reprisals from the Federal Liberals, and the potential of the same from the Provincial Liberals if they win, Tory has no choice but to go along with the SSE.
 
Councillor Ainsle pushing for a motion now to consider the Scarborough Subway and Eglinton East LRT as one single project. Direct the City Manager to come up with funding model for Eglinton East LRT.

This proposal will make the funding arrangements more difficult. But from the technical perspective, it makes some sense because it would allow for simultaneous construction of subway tunnel and LRT tracks on Eglinton between Kennedy and McCowan.
 
De Baeremaeker has claimed to support the Eglinton East LRT as part of the network plan. He is trying to prevent advancing it here

Let the record stand on what GDB did here today. He is an opponent of the Crosstown East LRT.

1) Even if so, that label will not hurt his re-election chances one bit.

2) He will probably still support Crosstown East LRT, but as a separate project.
 
2) He will probably still support Crosstown East LRT, but as a separate project.

Anyone care to start a pool on how long after getting the one stop before he declares it (and the Sheppard subway extension) a destiny project that needs to happen ahead of any other transit expansion in the City?

- Paul
 
Somebody needs to make a clip of Cllr. Anthony Perruzza, this is golden.

"Is this a comedy of errors or is this a tragedy? I can't help but think this is still at the comedy of errors stage. At one side of the conversation you've got all the experts, all the information, all the facts. And all of it says this is DUMB. You are spending a gazillion dollars on a one-stop subway. It makes no sense from a transit perspective, a city building perspective, or any other perspectives. But on the other side, you've got all the Scarborough MPs, you've got Scarborough MPPs, you've got Scarborough councillors, saving except for one. Transit experts each and every one of them.

I listened to Councillor Karygiannis a few minutes ago, transit expert. His position is, 'well if you don't do this we are going to remember you on the Relief Line'. Like people in Scarborough wouldn't use the Relief Line. Like people in Scarborough aren't stuck on the Yonge subway line now.

I get this, because I think i've been around long enough. I think the mayor is boxing himself in on this one, I think he is beginning to understand it. I think he like all of us understands when you look at something and you look at all the facts you come to reasonable conclusions, and to simply ignore them, creates I beleive what begins to be an uncomfortable situation for yourself."
 
Anyone care to start a pool on how long after getting the one stop before he declares it (and the Sheppard subway extension) a destiny project that needs to happen ahead of any other transit expansion in the City?

- Paul

I don't want to bet but I doubt that either Crosstown East LRT or Sheppard Subway will be high enough on the voters' list of priorities to make a big deal out of those projects.
 
The greatest majority of redevelopment along the Sheppard corridor isn't from tearing down bungalows, but redevelopment of obsolete land uses (e.g. the massive Canadian Tire site) or apartment neighbourhood infill (e.g. Emerald City). To this date, midrise is not the predominant built form along Sheppard either.

AoD

Sorry to correct you again but almost all the bungalows on that stretch are gone, vacated, fenced up or are targeted for redevelopment. People got expropriated on that corridor. I've seen it happen gradually
 
Somebody needs to make a clip of Cllr. Anthony Perruzza, this is golden.

"Is this a comedy of errors or is this a tragedy? I can't help but think this is still at the comedy of errors stage. At one side of the conversation you've got all the experts, all the information, all the facts. And all of it says this is DUMB. You are spending a gazillion dollars on a one-stop subway. It makes no sense from a transit perspective, a city building perspective, or any other perspectives. But on the other side, you've got all the Scarborough MPs, you've got Scarborough MPPs, you've got Scarborough councillors, saving except for one. Transit experts each and every one of them.

Doesn't that mean that the voters / taxpayers are onside with those MPs and MPPs, while the experts are trying to force a decision by reasons that are not relevant for the voters?

After all, you can't build transit if the taxpayers refuse to fund it.
 
Doesn't that mean that the voters / taxpayers are onside with those MPs and MPPs, while the experts are trying to force a decision by reasons that are not relevant for the voters?

After all, you can't build transit if the taxpayers refuse to fund it.
Well, that is exactly the position we are in, isn't it?

Unfortunately, Scarborough is not it's own bubble. The rest of the city exists too, and much of the rest of the city is concerned about evidence-based transit planning.
 
John Tory is going on a long rant about "real people" to justify unsubstantiated claims of time savings, contrary to "whatever studies are floating around out there".

"Real people have become fake news. I don't understand"
 
John Tory is going on a long rant about "real people".

"Real people have become fake news. I don't understand"
John Tory is having an issue with the definition of a fact.

Tory is saying that he is simply quoting people saying "they will save 15-20 minutes"

Cllr. Matlow retorts "but that is not all you are doing, you are using those peoples opinions as a basis of justification for the subway. These are not facts."

Mayor Tory replies "To these people, those are facts."

Cllr. Matlow: "Subjective opinions are not facts"
 
John Tory is having an issue with the definition of a fact.

Tory is saying that he is simply quoting people saying "they will save 15-20 minutes"

Cllr. Matlow retorts "but that is not all you are doing, you are using those peoples opinions as a basis of justification for the subway. These are not facts."

Mayor Tory replies "To these people, those are facts."

Cllr. Matlow: "Subjective opinions are not facts"

Matlow: How can we accept experience of transit users have have not ridden line that has not been built? "Are you listening to yourself?"
 
Matlow's motion asking for formal comparison of LRT and subway fails 17-27

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