Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[pman]

When you have an artificially constructed metric like the one you just made up, then yeah sure. But the only reason you're getting such a figure is due to the cost-cutting on this line that resulted in this one-stop subway extension in the first place. There should at least be a Lawrence East stop to replace the current one. Not too concerned about the the Sheppard-McCowan stop though, personally, though it would be a nice-to-have.

I still have a hard time believing these new cost estimates. It really makes me concerned for the DRL....

All metrics are "artificially constructed" so that's hardly a reason to dismiss LNahid2000's. Considering riders per 6km sections of subway makes more sense than the completely non-quantitative arguments used by Scarborough subway advocates when they can't make the numbers work.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From link.

The 1945 costs to build both a heavy-rail Yonge Subway (Eglinton to Union) and a light-rail (streetcar) Queen subway (Trinity [Bellwoods] Park to St. Paul) was estimated to cost $42.3 million. It was reduced to just the Yonge Subway for $28.9 million plus $3.5 million for rolling stock. The actual final bill for just the 12 station Yonge line was $67 million.

 

[coffey1]

All metrics are "artificially constructed" so that's hardly a reason to dismiss LNahid2000's. Considering riders per 6km sections of subway makes more sense than the completely non-quantitative arguments used by Scarborough subway advocates when they can't make the numbers work.

Well if we add a stop at Lawrence and his metric is hot garbage.

The SCC Growth Center will be connected seamlessly to the City's main transit artery & there is NO reason it cant run on the RT route for much less with more stops and many KM's with ridership which outshines much of the current system.

But that's the only hope for any savings for the left and further stops for Scarborough on a fully integrated lines. The SLRT is dead.

 

[coffey1]

This is relevant how?

They're desperate.

Although irrelevant now. Its interesting that when you do the math it's almost a billion dollars (2016 adjusted) of work done with little respect the health & safety of it's workers.

 

[coffey1]

Kinda on topic because I believe the SSE integration to the City is one step which will force slight change in the inclusiveness for Scarborough in the media.. As I was looking to see whats open today and saw this. No respect & no surprise. But who cares its Scarborough right?

Toronto.com what open Canada Day http://www.toronto.com/articles/whats-open-and-closed-this-canada-day/

I guess Halton Hills , Vaughan , Mississauga is represented as Toronto... But where is Scarborough's STC? Standard blatant disrespect out of the Left Newsprint.

It may seem petty to some but this is just a cute little example of how bad Scarborough is reported and represented daily in Toronto's left media. Even our own Scarborough Mirror (Metroland owned) contains a full front page Downtown Bike lane story which has little impact in Scarborough and then contains a few small articles of Scarborough interest mostly trying to sell LRT's. Propaganda at its finest mostly fuel further anger in an area without media representation.



Malls:
The Eaton Centre
July 1: 10 a.m. – 6 p.m.
July 2: 9:30 a.m. – 9:30 p.m.
July 3: 10 a.m. - 7 p.m.

Yorkdale
July 1: Closed
July 2: 9:30 a.m. – 9 p.m.
July 3: 11 a.m. - 7 p.m.

Fairview
July 1: Closed
July 2: 9:30 a.m. – 9 p.m.
July 3: 11 a.m. - 7 p.m.

Sherway Gardens
July 1: Closed
July 2: 9:30 a.m. – 9 p.m.
July 3: 11 a.m. - 6 p.m.

Square One
July 1: 11 a.m. – 6 p.m.
July 2: 9:30 a.m. – 9 p.m.
July 3: 11 a.m. - 7 p.m.

Vaughan Mills
July 1: 10 a.m. – 7 p.m.
July 2: 10 a.m. – 9 p.m.
July 3: 11 a.m. - 7 p.m.

Toronto Premium Outlets
July 1: 9:30 a.m. – 7 p.m.
July 2: 9:30 a.m. – 9 p.m.
July 3: 11 a.m. - 7 p.m.

 

[Palma]

View attachment 80223

Do you care that....

figure is better than 70-80% of the current stops NOW. It'l be #3 on the B-D line for #$* sakes. Imagine that kind of ridership would have put SCC possibly near the top 90% at the time of construction for the subway system.

I personally think itll be much higher when you consider 35-40K per day in the area of the RT already & those are the ones who have to use it. Im very interested to see the number when other commuters will actually decide to use it. Well see soon enough. Either way it very good for a subway contrary to the red brush it's been painted with.

Or did you think that number was per day? Because of how it has been used so negatively in the media I could see that mistake. So very far overblown. I see some stops that could be removed though and help my commute if you want to have that discussion? But lets not.

Gonna be a great stop. One of the best actaully

when i see the figures for STC I can see why in a way some feel a subway stop should be there, But is that not because there are parking lots at STC like Yorkdale, I have never been there so do not know for sure but I imagine its people driving from further north to avoid paying GO fares. What if those parking lots were gone? Would that not mean that the numbers would also drop? Parking lots are disappearing at Wilson station as condos go up. That does not necessarily mean everyone will be using subway for work. Sure most likely at other times to go downtown they would be but not for work and I think ridership projections are based on a M-Fri basis

 

[BurlOak]

They're desperate.

Although irrelevant now. Its interesting that when you do the math it's almost a billion dollars (2016 adjusted) of work done with little respect the health & safety of it's workers.

I am not sure. How many people died in the construction of the Union to Eglinton Yonge subway? More or less than died on the Spadina Subway Extension?

 

[darth_freeman]

View attachment 80223



Gonna be a great stop. One of the best actaully

It's going to be a great station, so great. It's gonna be so great it'll make your head spin. And we're gonna get Downtown to pay for it!

 

[JGHali]

Kinda on topic because I believe the SSE integration to the City is one step which will force slight change in the inclusiveness for Scarborough in the media.. As I was looking to see whats open today and saw this. No respect & no surprise. But who cares its Scarborough right?

Do you ever actually listen to yourself?

Toronto.com what open Canada Day http://www.toronto.com/articles/whats-open-and-closed-this-canada-day/

I guess Halton Hills , Vaughan , Mississauga is represented as Toronto... But where is Scarborough's STC? Standard blatant disrespect out of the Left Newsprint.

They also didn't mention the hours for Centerpoint, Promenade, Markville, Hillcrest, Woodbine Centre, or Bayview Village. Blatant disrespect of Thornhill, Markham, Richmond Hill, and North York-based snobs.

On the other hand, they did mention the Zoo's hours. Maybe it's not Scarborough enough for you because it's called the "Toronto" Zoo.

It may seem petty to some but this is just a cute little example of how bad Scarborough is reported and represented daily in Toronto's left media. Even our own Scarborough Mirror (Metroland owned) contains a full front page Downtown Bike lane story which has little impact in Scarborough and then contains a few small articles of Scarborough interest mostly trying to sell LRT's. Propaganda at its finest mostly fuel further anger in an area without media representation.

It is petty. I cannot think of anything more petty.

 

[BurlOak]

When people talk of a 3 stop subway are the stops:

1) Eglinton/Brimley/Danforth
2) McCowan/Lawrence
3) STC

OR

1) McCowan/Lawrence
2) STC
3) McCowan/Sheppard

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

When people talk of a 3 stop subway are the stops:

1) Eglinton/Brimley/Danforth
2) McCowan/Lawrence
3) STC

OR

1) McCowan/Lawrence
2) STC
3) McCowan/Sheppard

The latter, generally speaking.

There have been so many plans though that it is difficult to keep up.

 

[crs1026]

We seem to devote a lot of attention to ridership as pure numbers. Has anyone tried to quantify the net time savings of the transit options, ie riders times minutes?.

e.g. 7500 riders saving x minutes if we have a subway STC to Kennedy, versus x,000 riders on the Eglinton LRT plus y,000 riders on an SRT replacement SRT plus maybe z,000 riders on a Sheppard LRT saving q minutes versus today's bus/SRT commute?

For the same spend, which option saves the most minutes of travel?

- Paul

 

[TOareaFan]

If we are going to build this thing, we need an immediate anchor at STC that overcomes the poor economics which discourages development there. There's one no brainer winner : a major league sports stadium. I'm dead serious..... move one of the current teams out of downtown, if we can't buy a new NHL or NFL franchise. Skydome is a lousy facility anyways. Move Jays or Raptors out there, it might or might not encourage development, but the need for a status symbol subway will be forgotten immediately.

- Paul

When I see posts like this I wonder who the "we" referred to is? All of the sports teams in town are (and should be) owned by the private sector. So how do you/we move the Raptors to Scarborough (or anywhere) when they are owned by the people who own the arena they currently play in? Who is the "we" that is going to (i guess) pay MLSE $1.5B (US) for the Raptors then a few hundred million more for a new arena in the NorthEast? Similarly, who is the "we" that is going to build the Jays a new stadium that they can play in even though their owners own the stadium they currently play in?

After those answers, we can get to the "why" of why would any team currently located in the city centre choose to move to any extremity of the city.

 

[crs1026]

When I see posts like this I wonder who the "we" referred to is?

Fair point, I was being a bit presumptuous, but money talks. Neither ACC nor Skydome were "as of right" developments funded solely from the private sector and planned with City Hall in the bleachers as disinterested passive spectators. Seems to me the political "we" could make this happen.

My theory was - we went from $3B subway to $2B subway plus $1B LRT (i'm using the most primitive numbers to illustrate). That got us from a $3B white elephant to $1B of useful transit and a $2B white unicorn. Now let's take this one step further. Let's take the $2B and build a $1B LRT replacement to the SRT, a $500M stadium, and pocket the remaining $500M. Now we have $2B of useful transit, a stadium, $500M to spend on more transit for Scarboro, and reason for Scarberians to forget they ever wanted a subway.

Or - let's figure out how a $500M stadium would generate $1B in development at STC and build the subway. Either way, a stadium would be a game changer for a site that isn't going to attract much development no matter how much subway we throw at it.

After those answers, we can get to the "why" of why would any team currently located in the city centre choose to move to any extremity of the city.

The life cycle of a stadium is only 15 years. Skydome is not the nicest venue and no longer leading-edge. The ACC is one of the worst concert venues going, and similarly not leading edge as a sports venue. Better design + better economics + potentially more seats - OK, it may not be a slam-dunk, but I believe franchise owners wouldn't dismiss it without some conversation.

- Paul

 

[TheTigerMaster]

My theory is that Tory sees there are a lot of angry people in Scarboro, but knows he can't come out and say "yeah, it's a dumb idea, but they want it, so I have to give it to them" So he offers lame excuses to keep the subway alive, while tryig not to endorse the 'poor us' thing, and keeps hoping for some Plan C to emerge that will save the day. The one-stop Plan B at least diverted some of the original spend to a useful purpose. I'm sure he's hoping someone will pull another rabbit out of the hat.

None of us have figured out such an alternative. I agree we should not be dissing this angry group. While I disagree with @coffey1, he is doing us a favour by reminding us that these folks won't go away just because we find them irrational. They may be the swing vote in the next mayoral race. We ignore them at our peril - as David Cameron found.

The danger of the subway is that once we build it, and it doesn't make anyone's life better, those angry people will just stay mad and demand something else. Building more LRT will help lots of people, and that will dampen the anger for many.

If we are going to build this thing, we need an immediate anchor at STC that overcomes the poor economics which discourages development there. There's one no brainer winner : a major league sports stadium. I'm dead serious..... move one of the current teams out of downtown, if we can't buy a new NHL or NFL franchise. Skydome is a lousy facility anyways. Move Jays or Raptors out there, it might or might not encourage development, but the need for a status symbol subway will be forgotten immediately.

- Paul

Seeing how many stadiums in North America are surrounded by absolutely nothing but parking lots or empty fields, I doubt it would be the key to revitalization.