Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[rbt]

You do realize the further and further we delay building anything will only escalate the costs of whatever mode of transport we inevitably do construct, right?

What do you mean construct? I thought we'd decided that Scarborough is getting bus service instead?

SRT going out of service before a construction contract is tendered seems increasingly likely; one good recession (which Brits/Brazil/Trump! seem to want to kick-off) will end all discussion about building stuff for a decade (Brown is unpleasant but the Liberals used their get-out-of-recession-free card already). The money situation for the city is already very tight but gets much worse when you look at the pre-requisites that nobody wants to talk about (resignalling of the Bloor line and replacement rolling stock).

Ford's special tax only covers about 10% of the cities cost which is approaching $2B and doesn't include the shit stuck to Tory's shoe; which means a substantial property tax increase is required and that's very unpopular in the suburbs. I also believe the LRT plan or a simple SRT upgrade isn't coming back either.

Scarborough subway is rapidly becoming a 2nd Ave line or U5 (Berlin). If you want something done within the next 20 years, call your councillor now and demand a property tax hike to pay for it. Toronto literally cannot pay for the current proposal; all current politicians would be thrown out for trying. They're stalling until a full SRT failure occurs in the hope that the feds or province will do it instead.

The province isn't going to fall for that trick twice.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Id like to know what the cost is to change Sheppard stub to LRT, then run LRT west and also connect the Finch LRT. Worth every penny. But that would be considered a bad transit plan in Toronto & Scarborough can only choose one battle and STC is the more important of the two

Conversion of the existing portion of subway to LRT cost 500M (price as of a few years ago). No one cared enough to consider that a priority - even in Scarborough. Everyone is fixated on having some form of subway extension into the city.

Anyways, someone go back to the drawing board and work out just how much re-using the SRT alignment where possible and the existing infrastructure will cost. It was not chosen because it is supposedly "not perfect" - but surely it beats paying 3+B for a one stop extension.

AoD

 

[k10ery]

Should we play the game again?
Who can propose a better solution than the SSE, but you are not allowed to list an LRT with transfer.

BRT-lite with a transfer, then.

Which is probably what Scarborough will get, once all the fighting is done.

 

[Cobra]

Should we play the game again?
Who can propose a better solution than the SSE, but you are not allowed to list an LRT with transfer.

Eglinton Crosstown with SRT was the best solution...Period. This plan was killed out of pure hate for the messenger. In all his follies, Ford was at least right on this line, but his haters and Stinz ego/ambitions couldn't handle it.

This is where you get the other extreme at city all. Sure the pro subway can be a bit extreme but pro-LRT people can be just as extreme. A Mk III on Eglinton+Scarborough would have ended up being cheaper and draw more riders,

Pro-LRT extremists not wanting to compromise 1 bit are just as bad as por-subway extremists...

Man this is getting old.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

What a fiasco this has become!!! Will anything be built in Scarborough? I'm almost at the point I want to just give in and build this with Lawrence West PLUS Sheppard from Wilson to STC, just to ending. I want a peace of mind so we can move on.


Finish the Sheppard Line to STC
Extend Bloor to STC


I just want this to be over, and it won't be over until Scarborough gets what it wants!

 

[LNahid2000]

Finish the Sheppard Line to STC
Extend Bloor to STC

That would probably cost as much as a DRL. The opportunity cost of doing this is huge.

 

[Cobra]

No, the fact that he brought up the high immigrant population is what implies racism. It has nothing to do with the conversation at all. Its a straw man argument plain and simple. Tory doesn't want to debate on the facts, so instead needs to find another way to make the pro-LRT crowd look bad?

What do you expect from a politician? But it's no secret that the poorest areas in the city are the most underserved by rapid transit. I hope I'm not teaching you anything new here. It's fact.

Hack in? What? That was the original plan. Sorry sir, but you are wrong. Ford "hacked in" the subway, not the other way around?

Let's rewind a bit further behind:

• TTC submit plan to upgrade SRT to MK.II trains, killed by Miller Transit City plan (Many times more expansive than what the TTC wanted to do). Why is nobody recognizing that as well?
• Rob Ford wanted the SRT merged into Eglinton Crosstown provided that the East would be buried. He accepted Scarborough RT to have LRT trains as long as it was part of the Crosstown
• When Council killed it out of spite for Ford and LRT biais, that opened the door for Ford to go all out on his subway offensive. The province had clearly cornered Ford in the MOU as Sheppard Subway was unrealistic with is funding scheme but Scarborough would have had LRTs.

There I fixed the timeline for you.

As for converting Sheppard to LRT, I actually fully support that. After the DRL gets funded, of course. But I want that freaking stub line off the map

Metrolinx already analyzed it and said it wasn't worth it. Case closed

What about financial mistakes?

The mistake is not the cost, it's the plan itself. The 3 stop subway had indeed the required ridership justifying the investment. Cutting Sheppard stop and replacing the Lawrence stop with a Lawrence Smarttrack stop is what killed the ridership. With the current scenario, a 1 stop subway makes no sense at all. Might as well bring back the 3 stop subway at this point.

 

[sixrings]

I actually could have been and can be sold on eglinton.

 

[Cobra]

I actually could have been and can be sold on eglinton.

The Neptis report had also claimed that Transit City had grossly underestimated Eglinton Crosstown ridership and that with 100% grade separation on the entire line, you were in subway territory, but they said a skytrain technology instead would have suffice.

Elevating Eglinton should have been explored further but 100% grade separation was totally warranted and this whole Scarborough mess wouldn't be happening today

 

[LNahid2000]

What do you expect from a politician? But it's no secret that the poorest areas in the city are the most underserved by rapid transit. I hope I'm not teaching you anything new here. It's fact.

This is a fact, however, property values usually go up near subway stations, so poor areas will no longer be poor areas after a subway is built.

 

[Cobra]

This is a fact, however, property values usually go up near subway stations, so poor areas will no longer be poor areas after a subway is built.

No one's saying to build a subway station around the corner of each streets but cutting the bus travel time drastically for these people by having the subway going into these parts of the city.

 

[LNahid2000]

No one's saying to build a subway station around the corner of each streets but cutting the bus travel time drastically for these people by having the subway going into these parts of the city.

Even then, decreasing commute times will inherently increase property values.

 

[Cobra]

Even then, decreasing commute times will inherently increase property values.

increasing their rent by 1, 2,3%?
Still getting to work faster and on time is worth it, most of them would agreed to that

 

[LNahid2000]

increasing their rent by 1, 2,3%?
Still getting to work faster and on time is worth it, most of them would agreed to that

I didn't say anything about whether it is worth it or not. All I'm saying is that the poorest areas in the city are under served by rapid transit not because we don't build rapid transit in poor areas, but because these areas are no longer poor after rapid transit is built.

 

[Palma]

^So... its a game rigged in favour of the subway? "See? When you ignore all the other plans, the subway is the best choice!"

Heres the thing regarding that transfer. Right now, its bad. I'll admit that. Except the LRT was supposed to change that. You'd still need to transfer, but not walk up four flights of stairs. And I don't think spending 4 billion dollars to remove a staircase is exactly worthwhile.


I'm really not sure implying that people who disagree with the subway extension are racist is "the right thing" to say, even if unintentional.

I have always support Tory, but never for the Scarborough subway. And I certainly did not vote for him due to the Scarborough subway like he implies. I hate when politicians get elected and then presume every agenda they had is the reason they were elected when in reality it was inly one agenda or perhaps to get the other guy out