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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Here is another thought to reduce the SRT closure time.

BurlOak said:
Staging
- SRT remains in operation
- Track Protection just East of existing tracks
- Construct East portion of tunnel for Radius=250m curve (just south of existing tunnel)
- Build East Track (Track 4) for GO service.
- Build East Platform.
- Build Centre portion of tunnel.
- Build Track 3 (2nd from East), also for GO service.
- Close SRT East of STC Station (may require cross-over tracks just West of STC station).
- Construct new STC Station immediately East of existing station (SRT still in operation to STC).
- Open NB and SB GO service at East Platform.
- Close SRT
- institute shuttle service from STC to Ellesmere.
- Complete western part of tunnel.
- Construct Tracks 1 and 2 (West), including Retaining wall separating Tracks 1 and 2
- Construction West Platform(s).
- Demolish remaining SRT.
- Reconstruct SRT elevated portion until new STC Station.
- (Not on Critical Path – Construct Track and Stations to Malvern).
- Open full service.
- SRT Closure time = 1 years (maybe less).
- Optional (construct new Brimley Road Station) as an infill station (maybe depends how far East the STC station moved).
Click to expand...

This requires demolision of the track and Midland and STC stations, and then construction of track only (no stations), during the shutdown.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Really, is this what we have come to? There will be no subway on Bellamy! That will have worse ridership then McCowan!
Click to expand...
Will it? Current plan is one station at McCowan/Lawrence (and then further north).

if you added a station near Eglinton/Bellamy (or just a bit to the west) at Eglinton GO, and then cut back to a station at McCowan/Lawrence how could that have worse ridership? The additional travel time is marginal.
 
nfitz said:
Will it? Current plan is one station at McCowan/Lawrence (and then further north).

if you added a station near Eglinton/Bellamy (or just a bit to the west) at Eglinton GO, and then cut back to a station at McCowan/Lawrence how could that have worse ridership? The additional travel time is marginal.
Click to expand...
Could probably be done. Expropriate the Home Depot west of Eglinton GO, and make it TBM Extraction Point #1. Station box in this area somewhere. Cut and cover all the way to the foot of Bellamy Street (by the rail corridor) and re-launch the TBM in a northward direction. This east-west to north-south transition is probably easier to construct than turning from Eglinton to McCowan. After getting on Bellamy, the TBM would curve northwest into Hague Park towards McCowan & Lawrence (where there would be a station), and head north up McCowan to a STC terminus.

What the Toronto Star article fails at, rather pathetically, is by focusing on that stretch of Bellamy road, they are missing out on the bigger picture. Just east of Eglinton & Bellamy is fairly high density area. And in their comment about the low ridership Bellamy route, they counter that the Eglinton bus is busy, which is the very route that is servicing the eastward density at Markham Road and Eglinton, and the exact riders that would most certainly use a subway station at Bellamy & Eglinton.

A route along a short stretch of Bellamy wouldn't be about serving detached residential homes, but a convenient way to go from Eglinton to Lawrence and still serve a higher density area (the stretch of Eglinton from Markham Road to Kingston), which the McCowan route basically fails to do. Sure, it might still not have merit. But I can understand why they would want to study it.
 
Last edited:
nfitz said:
Will it? Current plan is one station at McCowan/Lawrence (and then further north).

if you added a station near Eglinton/Bellamy (or just a bit to the west) at Eglinton GO, and then cut back to a station at McCowan/Lawrence how could that have worse ridership? The additional travel time is marginal.
Click to expand...

a. There is no way council will approve another station ontop of the mounting costs of a Bellamy alignment. If this alignment is chosen the Scarborough Subway will not pass council vote.

b. According to various sources (read the Star article!) the Eglinton stop would not add significant numbers to the subway, as that Go stop already gets very low ridership.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
For what? And face down the rest of Ontario. Don't be ridiculous. You think Pat Brown will become premier in 2018?
Click to expand...
First, it was a joke, and second, the chances of Wynne pulling funding, no matter what gets built, are zero.

nfitz said:
Will it? Current plan is one station at McCowan/Lawrence (and then further north).

if you added a station near Eglinton/Bellamy (or just a bit to the west) at Eglinton GO, and then cut back to a station at McCowan/Lawrence how could that have worse ridership? The additional travel time is marginal.
Click to expand...
If the city had to cover the additional cost, which seems a given, that would be a tough sell.
 
robmausser said:
b. According to various sources (read the Star article!) the Eglinton stop would not add significant numbers to the subway, as that Go stop already gets very low ridership.
Click to expand...

The Star article didn't provide any information in this regard. All it provided was a quoted ridership number from Metrolinx on how many people currently use the Eglinton GO station. Not how many people would use the TTC/GO interchange station if the subway was built. There is a significant difference between the two and the Star failed to report this difference at all.
 
nfitz said:
Will it? Current plan is one station at McCowan/Lawrence (and then further north).

if you added a station near Eglinton/Bellamy (or just a bit to the west) at Eglinton GO, and then cut back to a station at McCowan/Lawrence how could that have worse ridership? The additional travel time is marginal.
Click to expand...

wopchop said:
Could probably be done. Expropriate the Home Depot west of Eglinton GO, and make it TBM Extraction Point #1. Station box in this area somewhere. Cut and cover all the way to the foot of Bellamy Street (by the rail corridor) and re-launch the TBM in a northward direction. This east-west to north-south transition is probably easier to construct than turning from Eglinton to McCowan. After getting on Bellamy, the TBM would curve northwest into Hague Park towards McCowan & Lawrence (where there would be a station), and head north up McCowan to a STC terminus.

What the Toronto Star article fails at, rather pathetically, is by focusing on that stretch of Bellamy road, they are missing out on the bigger picture. Just east of Eglinton & Bellamy is fairly high density area. And in their comment about the low ridership Bellamy route, they counter that the Eglinton bus is busy, which is the very route that is servicing the eastward density at Markham Road and Eglinton, and the exact riders that would most certainly use a subway station at Bellamy & Eglinton.

A route along a short stretch of Bellamy wouldn't be about serving detached residential homes, but a convenient way to go from Eglinton to Lawrence and still serve a higher density area (the stretch of Eglinton from Markham Road to Kingston), which the McCowan route basically fails to do. Sure, it might still not have merit. But I can understand why they would want to study it.
Click to expand...

robmausser said:
a. There is no way council will approve another station ontop of the mounting costs of a Bellamy alignment. If this alignment is chosen the Scarborough Subway will not pass council vote.

b. According to various sources (read the Star article!) the Eglinton stop would not add significant numbers to the subway, as that Go stop already gets very low ridership.
Click to expand...
The Eglinton stop should be added, but it might not be because that will pushed the subway to 5 billion. I assume the cost of Eglinton is not in the 4.5 billion figure in the article. I agree with Rob.

GenerationW said:
First, it was a joke, and second, the chances of Wynne pulling funding, no matter what gets built, are zero.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. We'll see.

If the city had to cover the additional cost, which seems a given, that would be a tough sell.
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
GenerationW said:
First, it was a joke, and second, the chances of Wynne pulling funding, no matter what gets built, are zero.
Click to expand...

If SSE costs keep mounting, and council starts to look as though it might vote down increased spending, what are the odds Wynne would adopt the "surface subway" rhetoric and move the provincial funding over to Smart Track? Seems plausible to me under the right circumstances. Other thoughts?
 
I'd say that the chances are slim to none. If the Liberals did pull Toronto funding, their government likely would not survive the fallout. Just about the only benefit I can see, would be for them to go to rural Ontario to say, "see how much we dislike Toronto!"

If the Liberals did pull funding, the PCs and NDP would likely commit to maintaining the funding for this and other projects and the Liberals would likely lose seats to both parties in the next election.

It would be a huge political risk. LPO would be better off sheepishly following the will of Council, as they've always done. That way any political fallout would be limited to Council.
 
robmausser said:
a. There is no way council will approve another station ontop of the mounting costs of a Bellamy alignment. If this alignment is chosen the Scarborough Subway will not pass council vote.
Click to expand...
If council either goes with the Danforth/McCowan or Bellamy alignments, I can't imagine them not putting a stop in between there and Lawrence. If they don't it will be the longest (3.6 km) stretch anywhere in the subway without a stop. It's about 1.5 km from Kennedy station to Danforth/Eglinton. And there's huge bus ridership between Kennedy station and Danforth/Eglinton. I'm quite sure an EA will show significant projected ridership for either a sto at Danforth/Eglinton or a kilometre further east at Eglinton GO station. And that's assuming that the GO to subway ridership is 0.
 
I was brought up in Scarborough but I thank God everyday I had the sense to leave that transit nightmare. The suburb itself is ok. But LRT would have done wonders on Eglinton,Sheppard and the RT conversion. Now it's basically going to be all Smart track. My goodness Rob Ford and everyone who helped him F up the LRT in scarborough screw up this area of town.
 
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