GenerationW
Senior Member
Couldn't if he wanted to. Only the province can do that now, though that will never be acknowledged publicly.
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
It's either that, or he genuinely supports a $4.1 Billion subway, or a $3.5 billion subway that's underused.
There is no way that Tory didn't see this coming. Since SmartTrack was announced, people on UT, the media and some Scarborough councillors have said this would be the outcome. I'd like to think this is a calculated decision by Mr. Tory to destroy the SSE, but who knows. His comments about not endorsing an alignment and his comments in that TVO interview make me think that Tory will go with whatever Council does. I don't expect to see him to be advocating for the SSE.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
He's only the mayor. He doesnt really have power to do anything without Council approval.
Why do you say that? As far as I know, if any of the three levels of government pull funding, SSE is dead unless someone fills the funding gap.
GenerationW
Senior Member
And who has fulfilled any of those ifs? No one.
It's obvious who the B-D extension power broker is, and it's clearly not City Hall. The idea of John Tory or council killing it is a fantasy.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
If the city pulls their funding, what is the province to do about it? Their only options are:
1. Pay the $300 Million gap themselves
2. Pull all funding for transit
3. Legislate that Toronto has to pay for SSE
Neither of these options seems particularly likely to me (especially option 3). # 2 would be most likely, but I don't think the Province is willing to get into a wrestling match over a municipality over building a subway that the muni doesn't want. If Toronto did pull funding, the province would most likely say that the evidence no longer support the SSE, they'll expand subway coverage in coverage with SmartTrack and that they'll follow the will of Council.
Tulse
Senior Member
That would show a level of political sophistication that Tory has never before demonstrated in his career (remember the religious school kerfluffle?).
crs1026
Superstar
'Secretly plotting' may be a tad strong.
'Quietly stepping back, while keeping Provincial and federal money commitments intact, and letting the whole thing implode of its own accord', I could go for.
- Paul
'Quietly stepping back, while keeping Provincial and federal money commitments intact, and letting the whole thing implode of its own accord', I could go for.
- Paul
GenerationW
Senior Member
The city pulling its funding is as likely as the city doubling its funding. No point in addressing your fantasy scenario.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The SSE was approved by a two vote margin last session. This session of council is almost identical to the last session (all but one councillor was reelected, IIRC). This is a very real possibility.
WislaHD
Superstar
Cooper
Senior Member
Agreed. I don't think Tory is "plotting." But if the SSE costs start spiralling past council's tolerance for more spending (and I don't think there's much headroom), I'm pretty sure Tory will dial up the "above-ground subway" language and start selling Smart Track as a two-fer. I can see the province going for that, as it would save money.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
This expensive extension must go. TC alternatives must go forward for these routes instead.
Meanwhile, where's the 4 billion for the first phase of the DRL.
Meanwhile, where's the 4 billion for the first phase of the DRL.
superman
Active Member
Having SmartTrack kill a Scarborough Subway would be a really dumb political decision by Tory. I doubt he'd go for that. If anything SmartTrack would just end at Kennedy.
Rainforest
Senior Member
At this point, there is absolutely no evidence that the Bellamy route would bring higher ridership than the McCowan route. The "reporters who've seen reports" did not provide such numbers, and did not state that ridership for route A will be greater than for route B.
The Bellamy route is not viable, you are right about that; but it has no bearing on the viability of the baseline (McCowan) route.
Rainforest
Senior Member
In any case, Tory will not allow the council to go back to SLRT plan. For the provincial Liberals, that would be as good as handing all their Scarborough seats to the PCs. They would be seriously displeased by such a prospect. Tory cannot afford to displease the provincial government, as he needs their support for SmartTrack, for the TTC operating subsidies, and for a number of other city projects outside the realm of transit.
Tory can, potentially, try to replace the subway with a branch of SmartTrack going to STC and then towards Malvern. This option has a number of merits, and in some respects, is superior even to the subway plan. Unfortunately, it has to deal with a number of technical hurdles, as well as require a much higher degree of coordination between projects. Therefore, it is not very likely to be adopted.
Subway remains the most likely outcome. If it is subway, it will take the McCowan route (forget about Bellamy or any other fancy routes, those are red herrings). I would not rule out an additional station at Eglinton & Brimley; that's only $160 million not $600 million, and will boost the ridership somewhat.
Finally, I would not be very surprised if Tory becomes an LRT supporter
, by proposing a modified LRT that connects the north-east corner to the subway in order to boost the subway extension's ridership. For example, an LRT that starts at STC, goes to Centennial Progress campus, and then to Malvern Centre.