Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[TheTigerMaster]

Will it? What do you do next though? Do you have a drink? How much is parking? Is it worth the hassle of driving?

Well yea, there's more to take into account that just time. Where I live, I'm sure my car would always allow me to complete errands faster than if I walked or took transit, but 90% of the time I still opt to walk/transit. Just about the only times I don't is if I know I'll be carrying a lot of items with me. Driving is a hassle. I'd much rather daydream for 20 minutes rather than drive for 10 minutes.

 

[aquateam]

Exactly. If it takes 5-10 minutes with the car, or 15-20 minutes with the bus. The car will win every time. This is literally why everyone in the suburbs drives outside of peak hours.

Many own a vehicle already, so why take transit for such trips if it is going to take so much longer?

If travel time were the only factor in deciding travel mode, then car would almost always win. Transit can never get you the transfer-free, one-stop, door-to-door convenience that a car can. What transit can get you is a lower cost, worry-free, more reliable method of travel.

The main benefit of Transit City, in my opinion, is not just the reduced travel time but is the improved reliability of a reserved lane and signal priority, combined with the increased comfort of rail and higher capacity vehicles.

Being regularly jammed like sardines in a bus that jolts around, stuck in traffic is the biggest incentive to buy a car that I can think of.

 

[wopchop]

Will it? What do you do next though? Do you have a drink? How much is parking? Is it worth the hassle of driving?

I thought we were talking about quick errands in suburban locations. People will ask themselves, Is it worth the hassle of taking public transit? In many cases, probably not. Parking is free, service is often infrequent (depending on your location, obviously), the distance traveled is short, and people already own the car.

I know plenty of people that take public transit in peak hours, despite it taking longer, but there are other factors involved. Hassle/cost of parking being one of the biggest. Suburban locations don't tend to have that problem, so travel time is the biggest deciding factor. That's why, like TigerMaster suggested, shaving 4 minutes off a short local commute would go a long way towards making public transit a better option in those communities.

 

[nfitz]

I thought we were talking about quick errands in suburban locations. People will ask themselves, Is it worth the hassle of taking public transit? In many cases, probably not. Parking is free, service is often infrequent (depending on your location, obviously), the distance traveled is short, and people already own the car.

In some places. In others parking isn't free (last time I lived in suburban Toronto was a quarter-century ago, and there were already grocery stores charging for parking back then ...), service is frequent. Invariably i could walk in 10 minutes though ... why bother driving ... you only get fat. Cheaper than going to the gym.

 

[Rainforest]

That 4 minutes is the difference between going out to get a bag of milk, or deciding it's too inconvenient. Improving local transit is key to creating livable communities.

Many people shop for groceries once or twice a week, buy in bulk, and hence don't care about a single bag of milk.

Local transit is needed, but the speed of short trips is not critical for most people. If anything, they probably care more about frequency and consistent headways.

On the other hand, the speed of longer range trips is critical, especially if you work till 5 pm and then need to pick children from a daycare no later than at 6.

 

[Rainforest]

I thought we were talking about quick errands in suburban locations. People will ask themselves, Is it worth the hassle of taking public transit? In many cases, probably not. Parking is free, service is often infrequent (depending on your location, obviously), the distance traveled is short, and people already own the car.

I know plenty of people that take public transit in peak hours, despite it taking longer, but there are other factors involved. Hassle/cost of parking being one of the biggest. Suburban locations don't tend to have that problem, so travel time is the biggest deciding factor. That's why, like TigerMaster suggested, shaving 4 minutes off a short local commute would go a long way towards making public transit a better option in those communities.

I dunno. I almost always take public transit to go to / from work (bus + subway); a car would be faster but is too much hassle; public transit is good enough for me, and I am lucky to need only the northern, less crowded section of a subway.

I almost always drive for shopping, on weekend; and would not switch to public transit for shopping trips even if it was 3 times faster. It is just easier to transport sizable purchases on a car; speed is not the main factor for my short trips.

It is hard for me to imagine that a 4 min speed-up will make people change their ways; although everyone is different ..

 

[ehlow]

The two main reasons people take transit are:
1. Traffic
2. Parking

For 1, if at least one part of their transit trip is on transit that's separated from traffic, like a subway, LRT or GO trains, it gives it a speed advantage over traffic clogged roads. We all know how bad highways are at rush hour, and driving downtown. You're sitting there going 5-10km/h or less.

2 If the destination has expensive or restrictive parking, or parking which is much further from your destination than the transit station.

In the suburbs, transit can work as a feeder to the subway (or in the future GO RER/SmartTrack) for those going downtown: Reason 1 & 2 apply. Also in the case of your destination being in the suburbs with free parking, reason 1 can still apply if say you're taking GO RER to your destination (then a connecting bus).

The 3rd bonus reason is some prefer spending 1 hour in a train vs 1 hour on a car since on the train you can read or do work, if it's not too crowded.

 

[nfitz]

2 If the destination has expensive or restrictive parking, or parking which is much further from your destination than the transit station.

Weather is also another issue, which I was reminded when I took out the car the other evening for a quick errand. As I was dropping off something that was rather big to carry, and it would have required me to change TTC vehicles mid-trip - or walk 30 minutes. I'd have probably not have bothered last week, as I didn't bother to dig the car out of a snowbank for a week. But the car was ready to go.

Great ... but what do I do on the other end? All street parking. Can't stop the car on the street, because with all the snow, I'd have been blocking traffic. No driveway ... but half-a-block away was finally an empty spot on the street ... filled with a lot of snow. I took a chance and used it ... and got myself out again in a couple of back and forths afterwards. But if I hadn't had such a big load (and it wasn't -20C), I'd have been reluctant to drive.

 

[ehlow]

Weather is also another issue, which I was reminded when I took out the car the other evening for a quick errand. As I was dropping off something that was rather big to carry, and it would have required me to change TTC vehicles mid-trip - or walk 30 minutes. I'd have probably not have bothered last week, as I didn't bother to dig the car out of a snowbank for a week. But the car was ready to go.

Great ... but what do I do on the other end? All street parking. Can't stop the car on the street, because with all the snow, I'd have been blocking traffic. No driveway ... but half-a-block away was finally an empty spot on the street ... filled with a lot of snow. I took a chance and used it ... and got myself out again in a couple of back and forths afterwards. But if I hadn't had such a big load (and it wasn't -20C), I'd have been reluctant to drive.

Definitely, not to mention our entire highway & road system is completely screwed when it snows or even rains. Traffic slows to a crawl, our highways are useless when it snows. Commutes suddenly double in length. One accident and it becomes even worse. Subways in the meantime often work like normal in the snow.

The whole car/highway thing does not work well for Toronto's winters. It's so bad that people have to work from home every time it snows, because they know how bad driving is.

Compare this experience to someone who lives walking distance to the subway, then walks underground through PATH to get to work.. I know which I'd rather be doing. I once knew someone who didn't even need a winter jacket in the winter since both his house & workplace were directly connected to the subway.

 

[wopchop]

In some places. In others parking isn't free (last time I lived in suburban Toronto was a quarter-century ago, and there were already grocery stores charging for parking back then ...), service is frequent. Invariably i could walk in 10 minutes though ... why bother driving ... you only get fat. Cheaper than going to the gym.

Very few suburban retail locations have paid-parking. The only ones that I can think of are on old retail strips, such as the Queensway & Royal York, Lakeshore East / West, etc. The vast majority have free parking lots.

I'm not saying that it is better to drive, so I don't know why you even bring up the point "why bother driving". I agree with you. All I'm saying is that people are saying "why bother taking the bus" for such local trips.

 

[ehlow]

Very few suburban retail locations have paid-parking. The only ones that I can think of are on old retail strips, such as the Queensway & Royal York, Lakeshore East / West, etc. The vast majority have free parking lots.

I'm not saying that it is better to drive, so I don't know why you even bring up the point "why bother driving". I agree with you. All I'm saying is that people are saying "why bother taking the bus" for such local trips.

If you're going to suburban retail with free parking almost no one would choose to take a bus over a car if they own a car.

However, if you're going to a place on Queen West or something you may opt to take the streetcar since parking can be a more of a hassle and/or more expensive. Or maybe you live in a condo where you have to spend 5 min driving in circles to get out of the parking garage vs. walking 2 min to the subway station.

Different scenarios push people to choose the most convenient, cheaper or faster way.

 

[LNahid2000]

Compare this experience to someone who lives walking distance to the subway, then walks underground through PATH to get to work.. I know which I'd rather be doing. I once knew someone who didn't even need a winter jacket in the winter since both his house & workplace were directly connected to the subway.

Haha this is me. My building is connected underground to Bloor-Yonge Station and my workplace is connected underground to Finch Station. There isn't any situation where this commute would be more convenient (or faster) using a car.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Haha this is me. My building is connected underground to Bloor-Yonge Station and my workplace is connected underground to Finch Station. There isn't any situation where this commute would be more convenient (or faster) using a car.

When is the last time you went outside? Do you even remember what a brisk winter breeze feels like? And I suppose you wear tshirt and shorts in the middle of winter on the subway, right?

And from now on, I'm calling you moleman. I hope thats okay with you

 

[ehlow]

Haha this is me. My building is connected underground to Bloor-Yonge Station and my workplace is connected underground to Finch Station. There isn't any situation where this commute would be more convenient (or faster) using a car.

Nice! I think walking outside is a good thing most of the year, but on a day like today, underground pathways are great.

Yeah, it's not just the main PATH downtown. Yonge-Bloor as you mentioned has a lot of underground passageways, but also places like York Mills & Yonge have office buildings with tunnels to the subway. At Yonge-Eg you've got grocery store, LCBO, a gym, a Chapters, food court all connected to the subway and some apartment buildings.

I also like that I can get to the ACC for a sports game only going outside for 5-10 seconds (the moat).

At some university campuses as well you can go pretty far without going outside if you know your way around the bridges & tunnels between buildings.

 

[LNahid2000]

When is the last time you went outside? Do you even remember what a brisk winter breeze feels like? And I suppose you wear tshirt and shorts in the middle of winter on the subway, right?

And from now on, I'm calling you moleman. I hope thats okay with you

Haha I still go outside a lot just because I like to be outside. Not on days like today though. I still wear a jacket on the subway because it's cold when the doors open at Rosedale and Davisville, but I do go grocery shopping in shorts and a t-shirt sometimes!