Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[yrt+viva=1system]

I’m surprised no heads are rolling yet.

I’m even more disgusted how the City doesn’t have any sort of oversight or power to fire people at the TTC. I must ask, how is it possible that the City has barely any power to force change or direct operations when it hands over huge sums of money to the TTC? Is the TTC not owned by the City?

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Recall the discussion when they built the BRT from Downsview station to York University, on all the things they could do with it after the subway opened to Vaughan. And yet there are tumbleweeds blowing on it now.

The finch express bus uses it to go between Finch station and Finch west stations, also i think there re some YRT routes that use it to get across the city as well now so i wouldn't say it's not being used

 

[Northern Light]

You don't seem to be dead set against the other surface LRT's,

I'm not opposed to surface LRTs.

I'm opposed to badly designed surface LRTs that fail to achieve any discernible benefit over what they replace, at considerable cost.

People, including many UT posters, get stuck on certain solutions to problems as preferable. In the context of rapid transit, this may be 'subway'; or heavy rail, be that tunneled, elevated, or trenched; or it may be LRT, be that at-grade, or selectively grade-separated, or elevated, amongst other choice.

I have no inherent objection to any choice, I simply ask for evidence of a material benefit, and of value for money. I see neither in the current EELRT concept.

That's not to suggest value could not be arrived at, with LRT, just not, as currently proposed.

Though I suspect the route is as much of an issue as anything, and that would be true irrespective of the mode.

 

[nfitz]

It’s revived when money actually flows to it. Until then it is essentially dead. All the money including this bus way money is being used to get the subway to Scarborough town centre.

Not true. The Scarborough subway isn't even coming out of the city budget.

There's $1.27 million in this years budget for the Eglinton East LRT. $134 million for SmartTrack (with another half-billion in the next 10 years). $21 million for Waterfront East LRT. $40 million for the Broadview/Eastern flood protection (though I'm not quite sure why that's in the city Transit Expansion budget).

 

[sixrings]

Not true. The Scarborough subway isn't even coming out of the city budget.

There's $1.27 million in this years budget for the Eglinton East LRT. $134 million for SmartTrack (with another half-billion in the next 10 years). $21 million for Waterfront East LRT. $40 million for the Broadview/Eastern flood protection (though I'm not quite sure why that's in the city Transit Expansion budget).

1.27 million. What are you going to do with that. Buy a semi at the very end of eglinton.

 

[Metroscapes]

The minister can waive the requirement for an assessment. Which seems entirely reasonable here, given it's only a temporary use. Of an existing track bed!

At the same time, this smells of overdesign. You don't need to design something like this to death. It won't need to last long.

To be a bit more precise, while the Minister would present it, section 3.2 of the Environmental Assessment Act allows all of Cabinet to pass a regulation declaring the project exempt. I do agree it's probably being overdesigned, but at the same time, due diligence in design is needed and you can thank lawyers for that.

This is the conservative version of deferred spending. They have no desire to ever build this so study, study, study and study some more until they don’t need to build it and get to save the money. To be fair they need to save money somewhere to pay for this subway they are building. The riders pay in the meantime but ultimate this is what a deal with the devil looks like.

I gotta agree, it's a classic play from the playbook. They also tried funny business with a Class EA to bridge a gap in the Humber River Trail in Weston, requiring a full EA. That delayed the project by over a year while the City took the province to court. They backed down from their shitty case, and it's moving forward now, but it has now suffered cost escalations.

 

[Aplus23]

So we are now building or have built heavy rail TTC transit in Richmond Hill, Vaughan, districts outside of the city of Toronto, and still have neglected Scarborough, a borough of the city for the last 20+ yrs

 

[sixrings]

So we are now building or have built heavy rail TTC transit in Richmond Hill, Vaughan, districts outside of the city of Toronto, and still have neglected Scarborough, a borough of the city for the last 20+ yrs

Scarborough is getting at least one subway. Also Scarborough is as far away from union as square one is. Mississauga isn’t getting a subway. Both Vaughan and Richmond hill are closer and threw in money.

 

[dowlingm]

So we are now building or have built heavy rail TTC transit in Richmond Hill, Vaughan, districts outside of the city of Toronto, and still have neglected Scarborough, a borough of the city for the last 20+ yrs

 

[Undead]

So we are now building or have built heavy rail TTC transit in Richmond Hill, Vaughan, districts outside of the city of Toronto, and still have neglected Scarborough, a borough of the city for the last 20+ yrs

Oh not you too.

 

[micheal_can]

So we are now building or have built heavy rail TTC transit in Richmond Hill, Vaughan, districts outside of the city of Toronto, and still have neglected Scarborough, a borough of the city for the last 20+ yrs

That is correct.
I'll bet that Mississauga will see an extension of the Subway to it before Pickering does as well.

I feel these things are more to do with existing transit patterns and less about much else.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

That is correct.
I'll bet that Mississauga will see an extension of the Subway to it before Pickering does as well.

I feel these things are more to do with existing transit patterns and less about much else.

TBH I have my doubts; Mississauga getting Milton line electrification and diversion (to MCC) is so much more attractive than any of the subway options... while all the eastern Sheppard extensions beg for a connection to LSE that really only works at Rouge Hill or Pickering and would be so much more useful in Pickering...

 

[nfitz]

1.27 million. What are you going to do with that. Buy a semi at the very end of eglinton.

20% design if my memory serves me correct. You said 100% of funding from the extra tax funds was going to Scarborough subway. And yet the reality is that 0% is.

 

[sixrings]

20% design if my memory serves me correct. You said 100% of funding from the extra tax funds was going to Scarborough bus way. And yet the reality is that 0% is.

I never said any money was going to a bus way. I think the bus way is intentionally torpedoed.

FYI. I want to put an extension on our house for a pool table. I had an engineer come by. Paid for some designs. Guess what my accountant wife said. That’s nice but we don’t actually have money for a pool table room because we’re doing this over there.

I did say that I think the Scarborough subway extension and eventually the sheppard extension is going to eat every last transit dollar out of Scarborough. I’ll be surprised if they can afford new buses when they go down yet alone an lrt project.

 

[nfitz]

I never said any money was going to a bus way.

Yes, I misspoke. You said it was all going to the Line 2 subway. And yet nothing is going to that.

I think the bus way is intentionally torpedoed.

It does appear that way.