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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Northern Light said:
Member Motion at today's Council Meeting from Councillor Ainslie.

He would like the SRT's elevated track preserved so that Scarborough can have its own 'High Line' Park....

:rolleyes:

Motion here:


Substance thereof:

View attachment 378190

Just no.

This is not and never would be the 'High Line'.
Not the same, not close, could not, would not, should not be.
Far better uses for the money.

By all means retain the ROW through Scarborough City Centre as a linear park or the like where plausible.
Likewise, preserve room in the N-S section of corridor for a multi-use path and a meadoway-type treatment.

But don't blow money preserving the bridges.
Click to expand...

Fair point; but, do you think the elevated section has no value as a future transit corridor? Whether it is Sheppard Subway, an LRT, or a mini metro, the route is not set in stone yet. The planners might want to use the former SRT corridor to reach STC directly, if the ROW still exists.

Or, is the existing elevated ROW too narrow for anything but MK-1's?
 
Rainforest said:
Fair point; but, do you think the elevated section has no value as a future transit corridor? Whether it is Sheppard Subway, an LRT, or a mini metro, the route is not set in stone yet. The planners might want to use the former SRT corridor to reach STC directly, if the ROW still exists.

Or, is the existing elevated ROW too narrow for anything but MK-1's?
Click to expand...

Existing bridges are too narrow for buses or wider rolling stock.
There's also the matter of the tunneled section; and the turning radii and platform height at Kennedy.

I find retention for transit to be improbable in the medium to long term.
Some possibility of saving some of it for the short term solution during the SRT shutdown, but not without some expensive modifications.

Steve Munro did a piece on this about a year ago, it would make a good read:

stevemunro.ca

Recycling the SRT

The ink was barely dry on the TTC’s recent proposal that service on the SRT end in mid-2023 when the inevitable question was posed: what should be done with the infrastructure and right-of-wa…
stevemunro.ca stevemunro.ca
 
Yes, it would be almost identical to High Line Park. The urban environment similar to Manhattan, and probably it would be just as popular as our Nathan Phillips Square high line.

I think I could be sold on turning it into a bikeway / path though especially if that path went beyond the maintenance building and connected to Morningside Park and Centennial College at one end and the Gatineau Hydro Corridor Trail on the other.
 
Northern Light said:
Existing bridges are too narrow for buses or wider rolling stock.
There's also the matter of the tunneled section; and the turning radii and platform height at Kennedy.

I find retention for transit to be improbable in the medium to long term.
Some possibility of saving some of it for the short term solution during the SRT shutdown, but not without some expensive modifications.

Steve Munro did a piece on this about a year ago, it would make a good read:

stevemunro.ca

Recycling the SRT

The ink was barely dry on the TTC’s recent proposal that service on the SRT end in mid-2023 when the inevitable question was posed: what should be done with the infrastructure and right-of-wa…
stevemunro.ca stevemunro.ca
Click to expand...
Really I think the point of value here is the east west segment between the Stouffville Line and McCowan, anything south of that is unimportant in terms of corridor preservation. As such, you basically have to ask the question of how suitable is that elevator corridor for either a Sheppard Line extension, or maybe some form of Rapid Transit along Ellesmere (you could have an LRT that transitions to an elevated segment near MCC).
 
ARG1 said:
Really I think the point of value here is the east west segment between the Stouffville Line and McCowan, anything south of that is unimportant in terms of corridor preservation. As such, you basically have to ask the question of how suitable is that elevator corridor for either a Sheppard Line extension
Click to expand...

Its not.

It physically can 't work, neither can the existing stations, nor the existing tunnel.

ARG1 said:
, or maybe some form of Rapid Transit along Ellesmere (you could have an LRT that transitions to an elevated segment near MCC).
Click to expand...

You mean SCC?

Yah, not happening, can't fit buses, would require substantial reconstruction.

Not in any plans or fantasy plans I've heard of.....
 
Northern Light said:
Its not.

It physically can 't work, neither can the existing stations, nor the existing tunnel.



You mean SCC?

Yah, not happening, can't fit buses, would require substantial reconstruction.

Not in any plans or fantasy plans I've heard of.....
Click to expand...
As I said, the corridor, not the infrastructure.
 
EnviroTO said:
Yes, it would be almost identical to High Line Park. The urban environment similar to Manhattan, and probably it would be just as popular as our Nathan Phillips Square high line.

I think I could be sold on turning it into a bikeway / path though especially if that path went beyond the maintenance building and connected to Morningside Park and Centennial College at one end and the Gatineau Hydro Corridor Trail on the other.
Click to expand...
A new bike trail along Ellesmere was just finished between Markham and Military trail so with extensions of that east and west we could have a direct bikeway from STC to UTSC
 
Northern Light said:
Existing bridges are too narrow for buses or wider rolling stock.
There's also the matter of the tunneled section; and the turning radii and platform height at Kennedy.

I find retention for transit to be improbable in the medium to long term.
Some possibility of saving some of it for the short term solution during the SRT shutdown, but not without some expensive modifications.

Steve Munro did a piece on this about a year ago, it would make a good read:

stevemunro.ca

Recycling the SRT

The ink was barely dry on the TTC’s recent proposal that service on the SRT end in mid-2023 when the inevitable question was posed: what should be done with the infrastructure and right-of-wa…
stevemunro.ca stevemunro.ca
Click to expand...

It is well established that the tunnel is too tight and too narrow for anything but Mk-1's, and that the elevated guideway is too narrow for buses or for most of the modern rail vehicles.

The question though is whether the E-W corridor currently occupied by the SRT guideway might be of any use for a future transit line (forget the tunnel, it will be gone for sure). Let's say, the Metrolinx planners eventually decide to replace the Sheppard subway with OL-style mini metro, extend it to the east, and prefer to interchange with Line 2 at STC rather than at Sheppard / McCowan. Would the existence of a continuous path from Midland to almost Bellamy be useful, even if the guideway structure has to be completely replaced?

Or, do you think a diversion to STC is a non-starter, and any Sheppard line will stay on Sheppard all the way to McCowan station?
 
Rainforest said:
It is well established that the tunnel is too tight and too narrow for anything but Mk-1's, and that the elevated guideway is too narrow for buses or for most of the modern rail vehicles.
Click to expand...

Yes

Rainforest said:
The question though is whether the E-W corridor currently occupied by the SRT guideway might be of any use for a future transit line (forget the tunnel, it will be gone for sure). Let's say, the Metrolinx planners eventually decide to replace the Sheppard subway with OL-style mini metro,
Click to expand...

Not happening, the working plans are to keep the Sheppard subway as subway, to extend the trains to six-cars from four, and the active platform lengths accordingly (already built but walled off/unfinished); and the line will be extended accordingly.

Rainforest said:
extend it to the east, and prefer to interchange with Line 2 at STC rather than at Sheppard / McCowan. Would the existence of a continuous path from Midland to almost Bellamy be useful, even if the guideway structure has to be completely replaced?
Click to expand...

Again, the gauge and rollingstock will not be changing. I mean, let's be clear, no tenders are awarded, governments can change their minds; but the working ideas don't involve this......
Also...if you change rolling stock you need a new maintence/storage yard.

Rainforest said:
Or, do you think a diversion to STC is a non-starter, and any Sheppard line will stay on Sheppard all the way to McCowan station?
Click to expand...

I think Line 4 will stay on Sheppard; but even if it did not, for reasons outlined above, it would use rollingstock consistent w/the rest of the system and that would preclude using anything like the existing infrastructure and likely the ROW either.
 
Presser out from the Province today that they have issued the RFP for stations, rail and systems.


From the above:

1644418594971.png


A refresher on the teams in question from the backgrounder:

1644418686134.png
 
W. K. Lis said:
1646678108566-png.383870


1646678085762-png.383869

...
Some want Line 2 Bloor-Danforth to interline or connect with Line 4 Sheppard. Guess it'll be at at Scarborough Centre somehow? Or maybe Sheppard will go with the light rail trains or Ontario Line trains (still waiting for that description).
Click to expand...
Looks like their plan allows for a northerly extension
 
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