Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[KhalilHeron]

I don't even care what they build anymore... Scarborough Centre just needs reliable transit. the 903 will have to suffice for a decade if someone comes along and cancels the current plan I swear somebody will die by my hand

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Steve Munro overview of the bus replacement (no political commentary): https://stevemunro.ca/2021/02/04/bye-bye-scarborough-rt/

The new route layout is focused on Kennedy Station:

The Scarborough bus network would be reconfigured to focus on Kennedy Station providing a through trip for many routes that now terminate at STC.
...
The map below shows the network without the SRT. Route marked with a blue dot in the list operate to Kennedy Station via a path to be determined (the dotted blue line). With the upheavals caused by the subway construction project on Eglinton and McCowan, that route could change over time compromising the lifespan of “temporary” improvements to support the shuttle.

The operation would be express with only one intermediate stop at Lawrence East which is the only SRT stop with significant demand between STC and Kennedy.

2023 Bus frequencies on the SRT bus-replacement corridor will be very frequent. One bus every 48 seconds at peak:

Travel times between STC and Kennedy would rise from 10 to 15-18 minutes, but this would be partly offset by elimination of the transfer connection at STC for routes providing through service.

 

[JSF-1]

Yes, and the pro subway folks, including myself, don't think that the Scarborough LRT is appropriate. Let's recap the issues people have with the RT shall we?
1) Linear Transfer to Line 2 (this is the big one)
2) The alignment is terrible, only serves industrial wastelands.
3) Most of it runs along the Kennedy corridor which is frankly quite redundant.

I think the greatest proposal to every come for the Scarborough RT was Rob Ford's compromise where the Eglinton LIne would be an extension of the Scarborough RT, which is honestly perfect. We get Rapid Transit on Eglinton that isn't butchered by being in the middle of the roadway, and we get access to Scarborough Center through a dedicated corridor without necessarily forcing a linear transfer, and while the corridor is redundant and poor, its more of a minor issue at that point. Unfortunately they told Ford to f off so instead we get a crappier version of the Eglinton Line, and we would've gotten a Scarborough LRT which frankly looks like a splinter on the transit map. Even though I am devastated that they are rushing the shutdown of the SRT, I still believe that long term, the subway is the better solution compared the Scarborough LRT, and I'm glad tunneling will begin this year.

They told him to "f off" because he wanted the eastern half of the Crosstown underground. In no way in any conceivable universe should the Crosstown in Scarborough be underground except at Kennedy Station. Not when Eglinton Avenue is a wide thoroughfare boarderd by low density suburb on both sides with a large 6 lane road cutting through the middle. Eglinton West should not be underground either for litterally the same reason yet here we are. Rob was perfectly content with killing the Finch West LRT (and hurting his own constituents) in favour of burying the EC for no reason. This would have been the 2nd time that Etobicoke got shafted by Scarborough over rapid transit projects, thankfully though that never happened. The Fords have done litterally nothing but pollute any and all discourse about transit planning in this city since now everybody who drank the Kool-Aid demands that there transit project be underground. Before any one brings up this idea that Rob would have been happy with elevated, don't. We all know who Rob Ford was and his intentions were perfectly clear and the sane people on City Council recognized this.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Segregated bicycle path coming in 2024? After allowing a year to convert. Please include a large bicycle garage at Kennedy Station.

 

[Johnny Au]

Segregated bicycle path coming in 2014? After allowing a year to convert. Please include a large bicycle garage at Kennedy Station.

2014 was seven years ago.

 

[ARG1]

They told him to "f off" because he wanted the eastern half of the Crosstown underground. In no way in any conceivable universe should the Crosstown in Scarborough be underground except at Kennedy Station. Not when Eglinton Avenue is a wide thoroughfare boarderd by low density suburb on both sides with a large 6 lane road cutting through the middle. Eglinton West should not be underground either for litterally the same reason yet here we are. Rob was perfectly content with killing the Finch West LRT (and hurting his own constituents) in favour of burying the EC for no reason. This would have been the 2nd time that Etobicoke got shafted by Scarborough over rapid transit projects, thankfully though that never happened. The Fords have done litterally nothing but pollute any and all discourse about transit planning in this city since now everybody who drank the Kool-Aid demands that there transit project be underground. Before any one brings up this idea that Rob would have been happy with elevated, don't. We all know who Rob Ford was and his intentions were perfectly clear and the sane people on City Council recognized this.

Yes, and frankly that plan was better than shoving it in the median of the roadway. An Eglinton Subway running from Mt. Dennis to Scarborough Centre is way better than what we would've gotten which is a massive transfer where 3 different LRT lines and a subway line terminates at one station and you have to pointlessly make transfers instead of just continuing on the same direction you came from (Remember that under the Miller plan, the Scarborough - Malvern LRT was a separate line from the Crosstown).

 

[kamira51]

They told him to "f off" because he wanted the eastern half of the Crosstown underground. In no way in any conceivable universe should the Crosstown in Scarborough be underground except at Kennedy Station. Not when Eglinton Avenue is a wide thoroughfare boarderd by low density suburb on both sides with a large 6 lane road cutting through the middle. Eglinton West should not be underground either for litterally the same reason yet here we are. Rob was perfectly content with killing the Finch West LRT (and hurting his own constituents) in favour of burying the EC for no reason. This would have been the 2nd time that Etobicoke got shafted by Scarborough over rapid transit projects, thankfully though that never happened. The Fords have done litterally nothing but pollute any and all discourse about transit planning in this city since now everybody who drank the Kool-Aid demands that there transit project be underground. Before any one brings up this idea that Rob would have been happy with elevated, don't. We all know who Rob Ford was and his intentions were perfectly clear and the sane people on City Council recognized this.

What's that?

*************

you want a second east-west rapid transit corridor?

**************

you do?

well too bad, here's a glorified streetcar for your CROSSTOWN travels

**********

signal priority? not going to happen lol

 

[nfitz]

Multiple options are floated for Sheppard; I don't have a strong opinion in favor of either option.

I was in favour of the one that was to open to Meadowvale in 2013, that they started building in 2009.

I'm having a hard time seeing any current proposals that will result in at least 20 years of bustitution to Morningside. If not 30-40 years. But congratulations to everyone who fought to deliver Scarborough the transit it deserves.

I just want a subway to square one.

That's reasonable. And I think Hurontario is shorter distance from Bay Street on Line 2 than up to Sheppard/McCowan!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I was in favour of the one that was to open to Meadowvale in 2013, that they started building in 2009.

I'm having a hard time seeing any current proposals that will result in at least 20 years of bustitution to Morningside. If not 30-40 years. But congratulations to everyone who fought to deliver Scarborough the transit it deserves.

That's reasonable. And I think Hurontario is shorter distance from Bay Street on Line 2 than up to Sheppard/McCowan!

When you frame it like this, the distances travelled to get from STC to Downtown by subway seem absolutely ridiculous. Travelling between Square One and Downtown by subway on a regular basis would be absolute madness.

IMO the Scarborough transit network planning should've always centred around LRT and BRT travel for local commutes, and RER for long distance (particularly to Downtown). Underground subways are in the awkward position of being both ludicrously expensive to build, and very slow given the immense distances involved.

RER with fare integration on the Stoufville and Lakeshore East lines, with the addition of EELRT, SELRT and SLRT would've been far more effective at improving both local and regional travel in Scarbrough than any of the official proposals I've seen.

 

[Rainforest]

RER with fare integration on the Stoufville and Lakeshore East lines, with the addition of EELRT, SELRT and SLRT would've been far more effective at improving both local and regional travel in Scarbrough than any of the official proposals I've seen.

No contest here. But the problem is that RER with fare integration is a golden unicorn. Everyone wants it, noone was able to get it so far.

To be clear: RER with fare integration isn't just an operational subsidy to cover the revenue loss. It requires nontrivial capital upgrades to the Union rail corridor, enabling additional train trips limited to the 416 (otherwise the massive demand within the 416 will swarm the suburban GO trains and leave no space for those travelling longer distances, especially on the outgoing trips).

Essentially this is what SmartTrack concept was about, but it ended in a big puff of smoke and a few additional GO stations. No capital upgrades means no meaningful role for the trips within 416.

 

[Amare]

For the sake of keeping my sanity, I wont focus on the rest of the politicians who led to this situation but i'll keep the lense on John Tory.

John Tory wasted 7 years of our time focusing on his fairy dust SmartTrack idea, while other key city projects were pushed aside to pedal his deluded idea. Now the end result is Scarborough getting screwed for at least 7 years. How ironic.

And conveniently, he'll probably be decide not to run in 2022 so the blood will be off his hands so to speak.

 

[toronto647]

For the sake of keeping my sanity, I wont focus on the rest of the politicians who led to this situation but i'll keep the lense on John Tory.

John Tory wasted 7 years of our time focusing on his fairy dust SmartTrack idea, while other key city projects were pushed aside to pedal his deluded idea. Now the end result is Scarborough getting screwed for at least 7 years. How ironic.

And conveniently, he'll probably be decide not to run in 2022 so the blood will be off his hands so to speak.

If Tory doesn't run than Ford Junior will be the leading candidate and further solidly Senior Ford's transit vision. I honestly think that would be good having the city and province on the same page and actual transit will be built.

 

[Undead]

^So Toronto-Ontario disputes will take on the nature of a Ford family feud? I can't bloody wait for that

 

[44 North]

When you frame it like this, the distances travelled to get from STC to Downtown by subway seem absolutely ridiculous. Travelling between Square One and Downtown by subway on a regular basis would be absolute madness.

IMO the Scarborough transit network planning should've always centred around LRT and BRT travel for local commutes, and RER for long distance (particularly to Downtown). Underground subways are in the awkward position of being both ludicrously expensive to build, and very slow given the immense distances involved.

RER with fare integration on the Stoufville and Lakeshore East lines, with the addition of EELRT, SELRT and SLRT would've been far more effective at improving both local and regional travel in Scarbrough than any of the official proposals I've seen.

To be fair it's 17km from downtown to SC as the crow flies. That's not too crazy. Compare that to VMC at 20km and whatever the heck Hwy7/Yonge is supposed to be @ 21km, whom cheerleaders of extensions act like is a few blocks from downtown, and SC doesn't seem extremely far. I still support upgrading Line 3, but context (of what exists today and going forward) is important.

 

[Amare]

If Tory doesn't run than Ford Junior will be the leading candidate and further solidly Senior Ford's transit vision. I honestly think that would be good having the city and province on the same page and actual transit will be built.

Oh yes, for sure! We'll have streetcar tracks ripped up, subways built to Vaughan Cortellucci Hospital and Pickering, amongst loads of other idiotic decision making.

I would say Mikey will never be Mayor of Toronto, but we've already set the precedent. And if you think any actual transit would be built with these 2 goofs simultaneously in power, than i've got some more fairy dust to sell you.