Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[denfromoakvillemilton]

That's an interesting concept, but I believe we should look at each connection separately; not all of them are equally viable.

1. Yonge subway to Richmond Hill: certainly justified, lots of potential ridership, just need to add the Relief Line in the south.

2. Vaughan subway: already there, but wasn't a very good idea, the ridership north of Steeles is extremely low. Vaughan Centre is not really an established urban centre, just a potential one. The subway could terminate at the Pioneer Village instead.

3. Mississauga: my best hope was to use the Milton GO line for a direct connection between the Toronto and Mississauga downtowns, but it looks like the CP mainline is untouchable and the Milton line idea is not going anywhere.

Maybe, the best bet at this time is a branch of Line 5 (Eglinton) running into Mississauga. A Line 2 western extension may be considered, too.

4. Markham: I would not extend the eastern end of Line 2 further north from the Sheppard & McCowan terminus, due to the travel time concerns and operational stability concerns. Plus, most of density in Markham seems to be located west of McCowan.

Instead, I would eventually send the OL / Don Mills line into Markham. Either up Woodbine, or diagonally to the Enterprise area and Downtown Markham.

5. Sheppard Line to Pickering: there is an appeal in connecting the Sheppard corridor to the Lakeshore East GO line, that would enable many new transit trips and maybe even compete with driving on the 401.

However, both the route and the technology would have to be scrutinized. It should be something fairly fast, running at much higher speed than most of TTC's subways, and at the same time, it does not need the 30K+ capacity.

Good breakdown rainforest.

here's my thoughts.

1. Yonge Subway. Don't really agree, but fine. But that needs to be the limit. Part of the reason why we have this Scarborough fight is Vaughan and Richmond hill getting subways.
2. Vaughan. Imo it's been almost 3 years. This is mediocre. It should have stopped at Pioneer like you said. The GO train goes right through Vaughan.
3. Mississauga has said nothing about this in a decade. They want their own system. Let's see how the transitway/renforth station performs first imo.
4. They have all day service on Weekdays which is expanding. McCowan and Finch should be the limit.
5. Sheppard should not go past Markham Road.

The subways will stretch out to all major Centres surrounding Toronto just as it is already started, and currently being designed and built. It is really nothing comparable to GO which acts mainly as a funnel from non-central Southern Ontario locations into Union station.

This GTA subway backbone is well underway with North York, Vaughan, Scarborough, soon to be Richmond Hill. Mississauga (Etobicoke West) has been lobbying (simple google search) and waiting to get in the que. The Sheppard subway will be built and will be set up the link for Pickering there just as LIne 2 will already have set up the link for Markham in the future. It would have been a bit further along if amalgamated Toronto didn't try to pull the stunt it did with Scarborough Centre. Keep in mind that type of corner cutting planning will never happen in other Cities or even at the Province, there will not even be a debate.

While I certainly disagree, I do hear the reasons why some dont like the idea of connecting suburban Centre growth nodes to the subways as a backbone. Its really like some here live in an alternate world to the degree they'll mock those pointing out the obvious reality of what is actually being built and what is being seriously discussed outside of DT Toronto in other GTA Cities

I assumed some here laugh at the idea of further 905 Centres being connected to the subway in the future

Not shocking in a forum when so many ridiculued and said the SSE would never be built.

Toronto politicians cant F with 905 Cities like they did w/ Scarborough. The Province is and will continue to plan extensions put to the Centres

Relief and growth will happen together, not in the most optimal order at tines but the subway extensions will only continue to gain steam as the GTA grows

None of the 905 regions besides York wants a subway.

 

[Rainforest]

3. Mississauga has said nothing about this in a decade. They want their own system. Let's see how the transitway/renforth station performs first imo.

I am less familiar with the Mississauga situation.

If Eglinton West LRT actually gets tunneled, then I'd like to see an LRT branch into Mississauga, in order to make a better use of the Etobicoke tunnel.

5. Sheppard should not go past Markham Road.

There are several possible choices for Sheppard, that depends on what we want there. A local line, or an express long-distance line with some local sections to support density.

For example if Sheppard is converted to the same technology as OL, then I can see it running local to McCowan, with a 1-2 km stop spacing. And then, running further east as express. Flipping to Centennial College first, then running on surface / elevated in the 401 corridor, possibly having one more stop within 416 (at Morningside), and then to Pickering Centre connecting to Lakeshore East RER.

 

[Rainforest]

Pickering being served by the Lakeshore East GO line is sufficient, since it's a far greater distance to downtown Pickering than to Mississauga/Vaughan.

Lakeshore East GO connects Pickering to Toronto Downtown, and does that job better than any subway could.

However, there may be a benefit in connecting Pickering directly to Central Scarborough and North York, using some kind of extended Sheppard line. This is not a near-term priority. But eventually may be useful in providing a viable alternative to 401 for some trips.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I am less familiar with the Mississauga situation.

If Eglinton West LRT actually gets tunneled, then I'd like to see an LRT branch into Mississauga, in order to make a better use of the Etobicoke tunnel.



There are several possible choices for Sheppard, that depends on what we want there. A local line, or an express long-distance line with some local sections to support density.

For example if Sheppard is converted to the same technology as OL, then I can see it running local to McCowan, with a 1-2 km stop spacing. And then, running further east as express. Flipping to Centennial College first, then running on surface / elevated in the 401 corridor, possibly having one more stop within 416 (at Morningside), and then to Pickering Centre connecting to Lakeshore East RER.

2. We'll see about tunnelling. I think it will just because of the area it's will go through. I think going along Eglinton is a great idea, but I wonder about the direct connection to Square One. How would it work?
5. Sheppard should be local imo. I think we need to allow GO transit to do its job here.

 

[JasonParis]

2. Vaughan. Imo it's been almost 3 years. This is mediocre. It should have stopped at Pioneer like you said. The GO train goes right through Vaughan.

Not disagreeing totally, but the "Black Creek" tangent of the GTA is not particularly served well by GO rail services. They run a bit too far east, and way too far west, to be particularly useful.

 

[Islington Express Bus]

Not disagreeing totally, but the "Black Creek" tangent of the GTA is not particularly served well by GO rail services. They run a bit too far east, and way too far west, to be particularly useful.

GO Transit Bolton Line when?

 

[Rainforest]

2. We'll see about tunnelling. I think it will just because of the area it's will go through. I think going along Eglinton is a great idea, but I wonder about the direct connection to Square One. How would it work?

Multiple options are available. To my understanding, Mississauga BRT is designed with LRT conversion in mind, so the LRT may take the same route and arrive to Square One.

Another possibility is that the LRT and the BRT share a short section along Eglinton, and then the BRT diverts south (already does) le the LRT continues in the Eglinton street median. Once the LRT reaches Hurontario, it can use the Hurontario LRT tracks to reach Square One. Or the LRT can continue further west on Eglinton, connecting to several intersecting routes, while the BRT buses will continue direct service to Square One. Each option has its pros and cons.

 

[Haydenpoon]

Multiple options are available. To my understanding, Mississauga BRT is designed with LRT conversion in mind, so the LRT may take the same route and arrive to Square One.

Another possibility is that the LRT and the BRT share a short section along Eglinton, and then the BRT diverts south (already does) le the LRT continues in the Eglinton street median. Once the LRT reaches Hurontario, it can use the Hurontario LRT tracks to reach Square One. Or the LRT can continue further west on Eglinton, connecting to several intersecting routes, while the BRT buses will continue direct service to Square One. Each option has its pros and cons.

Another possibility is the LRT goes along 401 all the way to Meadowvale, like the southern portion of the REM. Not sure where the stops may be but it can attract more drivers to ride the LRT instead.
BRT can be as frequent as LRT with the Mississauga Transitway. One of the problems in Ottawa BRT is the downtown section where buses queue up at streets.

 

[Divas S.]

Mississauga transitway is going to have a downtown tunnel, recently there were funding requests to get it built, it was always supposed to be apart of the line but was cut originally due to lack of funds...

 

[W. K. Lis]

The big problem with Mississauga's "downtown" is that it is not located near a GO Train station. It is located next to Highway 403 however.

From link.

The Mississauga Transitway is located on the northside of their "downtown". From link. Maybe over time (22nd century?), they'll increase the density on the southside of their "downtown" and be able to expand it southwards towards COOKSVILLE GO STATION.

 

[OneCity]

Good breakdown rainforest.

here's my thoughts.

1. Yonge Subway. Don't really agree, but fine. But that needs to be the limit. Part of the reason why we have this Scarborough fight is Vaughan and Richmond hill getting subways.
2. Vaughan. Imo it's been almost 3 years. This is mediocre. It should have stopped at Pioneer like you said. The GO train goes right through Vaughan.
3. Mississauga has said nothing about this in a decade. They want their own system. Let's see how the transitway/renforth station performs first imo.
4. They have all day service on Weekdays which is expanding. McCowan and Finch should be the limit.
5. Sheppard should not go past Markham Road.


None of the 905 regions besides York wants a subway.

I was only referring to TO bordering 905 Cities

As for 'want'

York region will soon have 2/3 bordering City Centres with Vaughan and RH
*Pickering subway extension was very clearly discussed Link here politically in the previous Provincial election. Obviously far, far, far off the design radar, i'd say that illustrates the 'want' for the future. It will only become a bigger topic in the future.
*Markham, I put then in with Pickering in the que after Sauga but never underestimate the political power of York region to jump up in the que once the SSE is built
*Mississauga may not be making much noise at the moment but wait until the SSE, & RH lines are complete to judge the climate. After the Sheppard subway I have little doubt this will be the next Centre


I understand some here dont want it to happen, but you really dont have to look or listen too closely to see it's already happening and will continue to gainmomentum in the coming decades

 

[kali]

^it has nothing to do with "want." the city and province can't afford an LRT on Eglinton East, nevermind subways. many if not most of these extensions will not happen due to cost. some of them should not happen because of low ridership.

 

[Divas S.]

The big problem with Mississauga's "downtown" is that it is not located near a GO Train station. It is located next to Highway 403 however.

From link.

The Mississauga Transitway is located on the northside of their "downtown". From link. Maybe over time (22nd century?), they'll increase the density on the southside of their "downtown" and be able to expand it southwards towards COOKSVILLE GO STATION.

Jesus, at least do some google searching before saying any of that LOL, here are some resources:

City projects

We’re building a global city for creativity and innovation, with vibrant, safe and connected communities. Explore current City projects.

www.mississauga.ca

Sign in | Dundas Corridor

www.dundasconnects.ca

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I was only referring to TO bordering 905 Cities

As for 'want'

York region will soon have 2/3 bordering City Centres with Vaughan and RH
*Pickering subway extension was very clearly discussed Link here politically in the previous Provincial election. Obviously far, far, far off the design radar, i'd say that illustrates the 'want' for the future. It will only become a bigger topic in the future.
*Markham, I put then in with Pickering in the que after Sauga but never underestimate the political power of York region to jump up in the que once the SSE is built
*Mississauga may not be making much noise at the moment but wait until the SSE, & RH lines are complete to judge the climate. After the Sheppard subway I have little doubt this will be the next Centre


I understand some here dont want it to happen, but you really dont have to look or listen too closely to see it's already happening and will continue to gainmomentum in the coming decades

And the non-York border cities have said nothing about subways. It has been almost 20 years since the Mississauga link has been in the provincial plan. They want off-peak Milton service. I won't hold my breath.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Jesus, at least do some google searching before saying any of that LOL, here are some resources:

City projects

We’re building a global city for creativity and innovation, with vibrant, safe and connected communities. Explore current City projects.

www.mississauga.ca

Sign in | Dundas Corridor

www.dundasconnects.ca

While the City of Mississauga wants to, there will still be opposition from the NIMBYs, which will lengthen out the growth.