nfitz
Superstar
It's Giorgio Mammoliti ... I'd hardly call him influential. Rob Ford calls him Gino Boy ... not influential.
I don't think that anyone is going to start taking seriously the weirdness that comes out of his mouth.
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Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)
- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
I don't think that anyone is going to start taking seriously the weirdness that comes out of his mouth.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
As weird as it might sound considering that Mammoliti once filed a human rights complaint against Ford, he is in fact now an incredible influential member of Ford's executive, playing an instrumental role in whipping the necessary votes at council meetings.
nfitz
Superstar
He might indeed play an instrument ... however I don't for a second believe that anyone in council took his suggestion at all seriously.
You are free to believe differently!
You are free to believe differently!
k10ery
Senior Member
You find it comforting that an influential member of city government is not being taken seriously?
But let's not argue about the details. I think we can all agree on the main point. We are being governed by Yahoos!
Ed Drass
Active Member
I'm not too sure bus drivers like them. What would it be like to steer a TTC bus (or other large vehicle) on the narrow sections of Wellesley? -Ed
Dan416
Senior Member
I think a narrow bike lane still wins over any motorized vehicle having to share lane space with a non-motorized vehicle. Bikes and cars (or buses for that matter) mixing is just dangerous.
junctionist
Senior Member
The city should produce some renderings of these separated bike lanes. To make them functional to an acceptable standard as this New York bike lane, one would have to eliminate all street parking on a standard Toronto four lane street. (One should note, however, that the random manhole covers in this New York example don't ensure the kind of smooth surface best for cycling.) Only by using the entire car lane could the width of the lane would ensure that passing could be done safely and efficiently while maintaining separation. It's the only functional solution for separated, unidirectional bike lanes.
Has anyone explained how it's supposed to work on St. George, which has parallel parking in bays separated from the roadway? Cars won't be able to enter the bays with a curb or bollards. The street might require significant reconstruction, yet it already experienced that not so long ago in 1997. It just doesn't seem logical, especially since traffic doesn't move that quickly on St. George for safety to be an issue with the current bike lanes.
Personally, I like bidirectional lanes, like the ones Montreal has had for years and is now improving. They can be more compact, taking up one car lane rather than two for a couple of unidirectional lanes, allowing for parking on one side of the street or other improvements, and are great for one-way streets. They will probably be implemented on Richmond or Adelaide, but we should look at other potential places for them as well.
Has anyone explained how it's supposed to work on St. George, which has parallel parking in bays separated from the roadway? Cars won't be able to enter the bays with a curb or bollards. The street might require significant reconstruction, yet it already experienced that not so long ago in 1997. It just doesn't seem logical, especially since traffic doesn't move that quickly on St. George for safety to be an issue with the current bike lanes.
Personally, I like bidirectional lanes, like the ones Montreal has had for years and is now improving. They can be more compact, taking up one car lane rather than two for a couple of unidirectional lanes, allowing for parking on one side of the street or other improvements, and are great for one-way streets. They will probably be implemented on Richmond or Adelaide, but we should look at other potential places for them as well.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
I think people have gotten into this mentality that the entire universe should be a protected bike path, and have forgotten that all three types of bike facility (protected path, marked lane, and shared space) have their place. It would be just as ridiculous to put a protected path on a quiet residential street, as it is to mark a "shared space" on major suburban arterials. St. George is in the middle ground and I agree that it's just fine as it is.
I am a little skeptical of bidirectional paths downtown. They inevitably create conflicts with turning traffic, and there's tons of that downtown. The Avenue du Parc path is the perfect location for a bidirectional path because there are very few intersections, no street parking, and lots of high speed traffic. Montreal's downtown bidirectional paths are plagued with near-misses with turning traffic, awkward access, and are only safer than Toronto's bike lanes because they tend not to put cyclists in the door zone.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Reading the new staff report on separated bike paths in Toronto, one thing I noticed is the low level of consideration to cyclist safety. The major concerns seem to be more the logistics of putting them in, rather than making them safe and effective. They refer to is the Vélo Québec design standard, which is not very high, based on the examples I've seen. I would rather they use designs from The Netherlands, Denmark or some other place that actually has safe and popular infrastructure. However one sentence highlights my misgivings about bi-directional lanes:
Now on top of having to fight for road space, cyclists can start fighting for green time too!
Now on top of having to fight for road space, cyclists can start fighting for green time too!
grey
Senior Member
Business owners would bitterly protest at the idea of removing street parking because everyone knows businesses are sustained by the two or three customers who manage to find parking spots in front of your shop.
There was a pilot project on Dundas West in Ward 18 allowing cars to park streetside for a few years until Adam Giambrone ended it because it was causing traffic problems. After being elected, Ana Bailao immediately brought streetside parking back because the Dundas West BIA fought for it.
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nfitz
Superstar
So they are creating traffic problems? I guess Ford is continuing the war on cars!
grey
Senior Member
Giambrone ended the street parking project in order to improve streetcar flow, so it could also be part of the anti-streetcar agenda, if you wish. Personally, I'm not sure what to make of Bailao yet.
But really, it was the BIA members who flipped out when Giambrone took away the parking spaces.
So, there are about 70 spaces between Dovercourt and Sterling Rds. A very rough count using Googlemaps gives me ~50 stores competing for those spots. They claimed that they were losing a "catastrophic" amount of business due to the lack of parking.
But really, it was the BIA members who flipped out when Giambrone took away the parking spaces.
So, there are about 70 spaces between Dovercourt and Sterling Rds. A very rough count using Googlemaps gives me ~50 stores competing for those spots. They claimed that they were losing a "catastrophic" amount of business due to the lack of parking.
nfitz
Superstar
Let me get this straight though ... there didn't used to be parking spots, and they were only added as a test project; and then because they were creating traffic problems, they ended the test; and now Bailao wants it back?
grey
Senior Member
Yup. Here's the Toronto-East York Council Amendment:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2011.TE3.58
I believe the original pilot project began in 2006. Council voted 21-8 in favour of removing the parking in 2009. Also, this was to remove streetside parking during peak rush hour only, but even that was still Not Enough Parking for the Dundas West BIA.
I found an OpenFile article about it: http://toronto.openfile.ca/toronto/file/2010/11/dundas-west-merchants-hope-parking-reversal
They claimed storefront vacancies decreased by 20% when rush-hour parking was permitted (from 2006 to 2009) and they attribute this increase in business entirely to the parking spots. Hmmmm... what else was happening in Toronto from 2006-2009?
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2011.TE3.58
I believe the original pilot project began in 2006. Council voted 21-8 in favour of removing the parking in 2009. Also, this was to remove streetside parking during peak rush hour only, but even that was still Not Enough Parking for the Dundas West BIA.
I found an OpenFile article about it: http://toronto.openfile.ca/toronto/file/2010/11/dundas-west-merchants-hope-parking-reversal
They claimed storefront vacancies decreased by 20% when rush-hour parking was permitted (from 2006 to 2009) and they attribute this increase in business entirely to the parking spots. Hmmmm... what else was happening in Toronto from 2006-2009?
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
Oh, the big recession. But that did not reduce business, of course, it was the parking problem.