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Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

2, Not sure what everyone thinks bike lanes are for. They bring a host of their own challenges. I am willing to bet I am responding to a post by a man, who is young enough to bike or want to bike fast
lol...I'm 67, triple time (chronic) cancer survivor, but being hyperthyroid, and the resultant necessary high dose of thyroxine post thyroidectomy to suppress re-growth, I'd be disqualified from racing. (It was thyroid cancer, a very hot political issue researched by my Endocrinologist, myself, US experts, and written about front page Globe and Mail, Macleans, and about thirty other publications. I lived downstream from a nuclear dump in Port Hope as a child, played in the effluent filled creek, clean-up so far has cost S1.2B and counting, but yes, I'm in phenomenal shape. I ride a fifty year old Reynolds 531 frame renovated by Argos Racing in the UK, major rebuild, three times already, twice by me. Engine losing a little compression around the anal sphincter valve, but hey. I still love beans. And I don't wear silly cycling canary outfits, just well designed gloves, padded liners and shoes. And plain T-Shirts, normal socks and cut-offs. I do distance, 150 km in 6 1/2 hours last year, {with stops and wrong turns} little slower this year, just doing 100 km jaunts, and stopping to see the sights).

I've lived and cycled in a number of countries and cities, haven't been to Holland or Denmark, but certainly in France cycling is catered to and encouraged. And *respected*! (My next younger brother was a horticulturist in the Dordogne Region.) It is and has been in California too, excellent cycle lanes in San Diego, some with traffic light sensors built into the asphalt to change the lights in your favour. Coastal highway been turned over to cyclists south from LA. Highways with few exceptions are paralleled with cycleways. I know what good cycling infrastructure is, and how to use it. I also spent many years in the UK, including in the music industry in London.

You make some good points, but your perception of my intents and observations is way-off. Cycling isn't a product of my being young, it's *what's keeping me young!*

I'm off to view the Bloor experiment again to spend some time and watch behaviour. More observations later.
 
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Number of points here.

1. Car passengers (and drivers) will have to change their behaviour. It has been said elsewhere and QQ is a great example. So is your picture above.

2, Not sure what everyone thinks bike lanes are for. They bring a host of their own challenges. I am willing to bet I am responding to a post by a man, who is young enough to bike or want to bike fast. In my experience, very few women commuters are as aggressive. I have witnessed younger guys cursing at other commuters to move over and let them pass in bike lanes in various places. This begs the question is a bike lane for a recreational/average biker or a serious "I am on a mission" biker. They are two different animals. The majority of people on Dundas East in the morning are not worried about taking two minutes longer, or getting stopped at a light. Unlike downtown, where I see bikes running reds like cars at the end of a green cycle. Most of the more aggressive cycling I have seen is younger guys.

My point in the previous is is. If you are travelling faster than 20km/h in a bike lane, you are in a minority. You will have to exercise more caution and you can/ could get doored by anyone. The vast majority of cyclists should be able to stop responsibly givnen the speeds they are travelling.

It may come to the point, that if you cycle rapidly, it is better to stick to the road. Is QQ a recreational ROW (sometimes) or a street surrogate for cyclists (sometimes). On weekends, the two uses are in conflict.

There are some good points in here, but "cyclists should be able to stop responsibly" is crazy misguided. You can be traveling at 5 km/h and still get doored to the extent that you sustain serious injury.
 
Folks. This is a test. It has all the provisional measures of a test. In a million years, my parents would never have taken a bike on anything other than a recreational ride. Whether, the current excitement around cycling is still in place in five years, remains to be seen. Part of this discussion is also transit build out.

I grew up in Etobicoke and my parents had a one-size-fits-all-journeys-mentality. We took the car to the corner. We took the car downtown. We took the car to Halifax.

It being more than a few years later, most of us probably choose a variety of transport methods depending on where we are going, when and with how many people.

We are all usually trying to minimize cost or time or both.

The motivated and altruistic amongst us, are trying to minimize green house gas and stay thin (ner).

None of the issues, I have just listed ever came into a discussion thirty years ago other than where are we going to park, and will that be one car or two?

Patience.

Perfect is the enemy of good.

No, this is not an issue of the perfect being the enemy of the good. The stakes are much higher. The Mayor has quite clearly said that this pilot is essentially a test for his support of protected cycle infrastructure on busy streets anywhere else in the city.

Combine that with the fact that there is no consensus on measurement or success criteria (which means the data is subject to extreme manipulation and misuse), and the perceived outcome of this pilot could literally mean life or death for the evolution of adequate cycle infrastructure in this city for a long time.

Similarly, the "current excitement around cycling", or at least how I'm interpreting the intimation, is a gross mischaracterization of how and why people cycle and longitudinal usage trends.
 
If you are referring to passengers, yes. But much less probable.
Less probable because there are fewer passengers tha drivers. More probable for those cars that do have passengers because passengers are less likely than drivers to check when opening their doors. Cars with doors = potential for doorings, plain and simple.
 
In my experience, very few women commuters are as aggressive.
lol...It's an odd thing, since I'm older than you are, probably by quite a bit, but I'm meeting more and more "aggressive women"...and I like it. Notice the Cdn Olympic results of late?

This begs the question is a bike lane for a recreational/average biker or a serious "I am on a mission" biker.
You completely miss the most obvious: Commuting. I haven't owned a vehicle or a Cdn driver's licence for over thirty years! I used to have every category back then save for 18 wheeler. Chauffer's, bike, school bus, Toronto cab licence. Cycling in Toronto, besides transit, is the only way I get around.
 
lol...It's an odd thing, since I'm older than you are, probably by quite a bit, but I'm meeting more and more "aggressive women"...and I like it. Notice the Cdn Olympic results of late?

You completely miss the most obvious: Commuting. I haven't owned a vehicle or a Cdn driver's licence for over thirty years! I used to have every category back then save for 18 wheeler. Chauffer's, bike, school bus, Toronto cab licence. Cycling in Toronto, besides transit, is the only way I get around.

*Dumbass comment alert for the moderators*
 
More probable for those cars that do have passengers because passengers are less likely than drivers to check when opening their doors
I got doored some years back by a taxi passenger exiting without looking. The driver should have been charged since he stopped away from the curb, and as I was taught by the HTA at the time when I got my cabbie licence, the *driver* is responsible....why? Because as you state, *passengers don't look* with few exceptions.

The cop charged the passenger. I felt sorry for her, she broke down and cried, she was a student, and the cabbie was straddling the bike lane on Spadina northbound just south of Queen, on the turning lane, so I was forced to go between the cab and the curb. I wasn't that damaged, but the machine I was riding at the time was. I actually argued in the court in favour of the defendant. When I contacted the City licensing bureau, they were livid, and agreed the cop should have charged the driver. She got a a $100 plus fine.

Point is, dooring is *ever more a hazard* on the new Bloor stretch, many exiting with their arms full, and no view as to what's flying towards them. The mirrors are for the driver, most passengers can't see behind them.

Combine that with the fact that there is no consensus on measurement or success criteria (which means the data is subject to extreme manipulation and misuse), and the perceived outcome of this pilot could literally mean life or death for the evolution of adequate cycle infrastructure in this city for a long time.

It's premature to say this, but I'm getting the distinct whiff of a rigged outcome from this, some of the design is so absurd.
 
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Ultimately, I think what really needs to be revisited is parking on Bloor in a final design. It's been shown in many studies that business owners consistently over-estimate the number of customers coming by car. This isn't the far reaches of Scarborough...it's downtown in a major city. I'm sure that demand could be handled much better by opening up public parking in the block or two adjacent to Bloor on-street as well as Green P lots nearby.

One thing I would like to see added though is lay-by's for delivery vehicles. That would help a lot with some of the worst bike lane/traffic offenders.
 
Ultimately, I think what really needs to be revisited is parking on Bloor in a final design. It's been shown in many studies that business owners consistently over-estimate the number of customers coming by car. This isn't the far reaches of Scarborough...it's downtown in a major city. I'm sure that demand could be handled much better by opening up public parking in the block or two adjacent to Bloor on-street as well as Green P lots nearby.

One thing I would like to see added though is lay-by's for delivery vehicles. That would help a lot with some of the worst bike lane/traffic offenders.

There's not a snowball's chance in hell more parking is eliminated after the conclusion of the study. The elimination of the existing slate of spots and the associated lost revenue was a major focus at Council and committee despite the presented fact that Green P lots all along the pilot area are perpetually under capacity.

Quite simply, a considerable portion of Council is impervious to fact, data, and logic in decision-making.
 
Ultimately, I think what really needs to be revisited is parking on Bloor in a final design. It's been shown in many studies that business owners consistently over-estimate the number of customers coming by car. This isn't the far reaches of Scarborough...it's downtown in a major city. I'm sure that demand could be handled much better by opening up public parking in the block or two adjacent to Bloor on-street as well as Green P lots nearby.

One thing I would like to see added though is lay-by's for delivery vehicles. That would help a lot with some of the worst bike lane/traffic offenders.
I've been reading to see what other views are being published on the 'experiment'. Most of this is anecdotal in terms of judging predominant business sentiment, but there is a hopeful comment on the city "modifying" the design later. Pardon the length, to edit this would further reduce the breadth of views: (Pics and captions removed to trim character count, access link for full copy, comments are attributed clearly there)
Tues., Aug. 2, 2016
Cyclists were excited.

Local shop owners? Understanding.

And for the most part, even drivers appeared to be mostly at peace as construction — and subsequent traffic jams — began Tuesday on the Bloor St. bike lanes project.

“Personally, I’m very optimistic about it,” cyclist Candida Girling told the Star as crews shut down traffic on Bloor St. W. between Avenue Rd. and Shaw St. to one lane each way and began painting markers on the asphalt. “I’m excited because (Bloor St.) is pretty treacherous, I often ride along here and it’s really not easy for bikes... I’m worried about narrowing such a narrow street already, but I’m really in favour of bike lanes in Toronto and I’m happy about it.”

The construction, during which city crews will install new painted bike lanes and flexible posts as well as new signs with updated parking rules, is expected to last around two weeks.

Another cyclist, Leanne Fry, said she was happy that bike lanes were being installed but that she would try to avoid riding on Bloor while the construction is ongoing.

“I think drivers are going to get more and more irate. Maybe today, they’re being okay about it but I’ve already heard honking and stuff.”

Though the Star didn’t witness any major traffic accidents while walking along Bloor Tuesday morning and afternoon, there were a few small hiccups — several vehicles drove in the closed-off lanes and then got stuck behind barricades, and there were multiple close calls as cyclists weaved between cars or were squeezed between the road and curb. Traffic was bumper-to-bumper in some stretches, and some cyclists took to riding on the sidewalks. At one point, a truck making a left turn onto Bloor knocked over, and then ran over, a “Road Closed” sign.

Helena Bialek, who drove her daughter to a doctor’s appointment along Bloor, said getting through the construction was “frustrating.” She was also forced to park on a residential street while waiting for her daughter as parking along Bloor has been eliminated during construction.

“It inconveniences the people who live in the area and who do have permits, and then you’ve got other people parking in their spots during the day,” she said, but added that she thought the addition of bike lanes was necessary for road safety and the environment.

Another driver, Osama Fattah, said adding bike lanes was important, but that the traffic was “a bother.”

“But I guess it’s okay,” he said. “Do I have any other option? No.”

Most local store owners along Bloor who spoke to the Star weren’t too worried yet about the construction’s impact on business.

“We’ve had our appointments come in so far,” Jenna Davey of the Downtown Cat Clinic at 739 Bloor St. W. said Tuesday noon.

Customers are finding parking on side streets to get to the clinic at Grace St., across from Christie Pits, she said.

Genet Fetensa, a worker at the International News convenience store just west of St. George St., said she frequently sees minor collisions between bikes and cars in front of her shop. She said she was worried the lack of parking might deter people from coming in but added that the bike lanes were needed.

“It’s good to have that lane because I see a lot of accidents all the time… But at the same time, for business, I think it’s going to be really hard,” she said.

Once the bike lanes are installed, parking will be available on at least one side of the street with one lane of traffic in each direction and dedicated turn lanes at major intersections.

In the meantime, the city has asked for any scheduled deliveries and loading be made off of Bloor St. whenever possible.

City staff have been instructed to report back in the third quarter of 2017 on the pilot and recommend whether the lanes should be made permanent, modified or removed.

But Aaron Enchin, the general manager of Bloor St. W. bike shop Curbside Cycle and a lifelong cyclist, said he thinks the answer will be clear.

“I think with more and more bike infrastructure, the layout of the city is only going to improve … To consider traffic as not just cars but as pedestrians and cyclists all together is a really important step forward and I think that it’s going to be a really eye-opening endeavour for the city council,” he said. “To consider only cars as traffic is ludicrous, and we need to treat traffic as people.”

With files from Peter Edwards and Jennifer Pagliaro

From the street

The Star spoke to several cyclists and shop owners along Bloor St. W. Tuesday to get their thoughts on the installation of bike lanes along one of the city’s main arteries.


“I don’t think I feel safe on Bloor St. since there’s no special lanes for bicycles, you know? But on College St. it’s much better, and Spadina is also better. I think (the new bike lanes are) great. I ride a bicycle every day, so yeah. It’s good… I think it’s not safe if we don’t have a special lane for bicycles.”

“Some of (the bike lanes in Toronto) are pretty whack, but some of them are smooth sailing, they make it easy, you know? But it’s definitely not as forward or progressive as Berlin or Amsterdam or Montreal, even. They’re not as consistent, I would say.”

“Personally, I’m very optimistic about it... I hope it’s still going to work for the neighbourhood shops and that there are times when cars can access (them). So I’m interested to see if it will really work. I’m worried about narrowing such a narrow street already, but I’m really in favour of bike lanes in Toronto and I’m happy about it.”


“I think it’s long overdue… Bike infrastructure is really a wonderful thing for bicyclists and car drivers alike... I heard a lot of complaints about bicyclists being unpredictable and I think this is going to really put a lot of drivers at ease… I can also say that I’ve lived in a lot of cities that have bike cultures, and Toronto’s seems kind of primitive by comparison, but I’m pretty encouraged by what I see in terms of the community coming out.”


“We’ve been gunning for bike lines on Bloor for years and years… It’s just been a joy getting the construction notices in the mail and being a part of the building of this infrastructure… In the Annex, most of the business is walk-by traffic, cyclists and TTC riders. And only about five per cent of any business that comes to these shops is by car… I’m not worried at all that business is going to suffer at all here, and once the bike lanes are in, it’s only going to increase.”


“I’m just going to have to take it. And we’re in low season anyway, for the summer, for my type of business… I anticipate that it’s going to increase business for me (once construction is done), because my clientele for a health food store is all based on health-conscious people, mostly bikers. A lot of my clients right now, they mostly bike in the area, so if anything, it’s going to better for me.”
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...-bike-lane-installation-in-stride-so-far.html
 
The cop charged the passenger. I felt sorry for her, she broke down and cried, she was a student, and the cabbie was straddling the bike lane on Spadina northbound just south of Queen, on the turning lane, so I was forced to go between the cab and the curb.

So you saw a cab dropping off a passenger and rode between the cab and the curb? That sounds ridiculously stupid. Wait until you can use the right lane or just slow down so you can stop if the door opens up.

I hate to be a dick but this is the problem with transportation in Toronto - all transportation, including walking, driving and biking. People's attitude always seems to be "me, me, me" and they drive, walk and bike as if nobody else matters. When you watch those videos of all the European bike infrastructure, people are biking slowly, taking their time and not acting like everything that's technically legal is the right thing to do.

Also, just to add something, a lot of taxis have been adding rear-view mirrors for the back seats (See this pic for example: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNl95ZPWgAAAgfn.jpg). It would be nice to have that made mandatory for all taxis and PTC cars.
 
So you saw a cab dropping off a passenger and rode between the cab and the curb? That sounds ridiculously stupid. Wait until you can use the right lane or just slow down so you can stop if the door opens up.

I hate to be a dick but this is the problem with transportation in Toronto - all transportation, including walking, driving and biking. People's attitude always seems to be "me, me, me" and they drive, walk and bike as if nobody else matters. When you watch those videos of all the European bike infrastructure, people are biking slowly, taking their time and not acting like everything that's technically legal is the right thing to do.

Oh yeah, wanting not to be doored is so selfish. smh.
 
After those pics were taken, ostensibly early in the day (Ninish)...

Yes the pics were taken around that time, after the press conference. Traffic volumes were reduced since most commuters arrived to work by then, and most shops still haven't opened for business. I plan to revisit Bloor next week during the afternoon to see how it performs under more challenging conditions.


I've been studying Salsa's pics, and it's becoming clearly obvious that with the limited width of Bloor St, and necessity deemed by 'interests' that one side of the street hosts parking, that a two-way bicycle lane behind that parking is the only way to *improve* safety (it's still highly problematic) such that if a cyclist impacts an opening door on the present south side, it's a glancing deflection more than a direct head-on to the edge of the opening/opened door.

This implementation has its own set of shortcomings, but *far less* than the mess now extant on Bloor. A good layout like this promotes safer habits too, and it is *very clear* to motorists as to who should be where....well...one should never presume motorists will get it, but they have little choice in this implementation.

For a pilot project, implementing a bi-directional lane would require new traffic signals which would significantly increase the cost (not that I'm against that, but unfortunately I don't have a vote at city hall). You might be right that it's the best solution for the narrow sections of Bloor, but then it would also have to be implemented along the rest of Bloor and Danforth which for the most part are significantly wider. Otherwise cyclists will have to cross the street whenever the lane changes from uni-directional to bi-directional.

As for motorists, my experience with using the bi-directional Eglinton West trail is that some drivers are not looking properly before they make a turn at an intersection. Someone who's turning left will always check for oncoming traffic but some forget that cyclists can come from the opposite direction.
 
So you saw a cab dropping off a passenger and rode between the cab and the curb? That sounds ridiculously stupid. Wait until you can use the right lane or just slow down so you can stop if the door opens up.
Do you blame those getting raped and robbed too?

Look, if you're going to hurl insults after reading incorrectly and making assumptions, then *you're* the "dick".

The cab had stopped illegally in the cycling lane...*away from the curb*! I described the intersection, and if you had half a brain, you'd know it. Spadina northbound immediately south of the intersection with Queen. The cycling lane, if it's still as it was, continues straight north while the turning lane diverges to the east onto Queen. There was a car in front of the cab stopped at the lights. So since the the right turn lane was clear, and I was turning right, I took it. *THEN* the door came flying open. I had the lane, fully legally, do you have a problem with that?

I have *never* lost a demerit point in my entire professional driving career, and only had one major accident decades back from sixty years of cycling, not my fault. Never had an accident driving and cycling abroad. Anything you'd care to add?
I hate to be a dick
Then don't be.
 
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