Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

[robmausser]

Puts hand up.

Sorry, that's me. LOL

Well, not exactly me; but many of us who work with the City on environmental issues have deep reservations about the preliminary phase 3 option. That, in combination w/the fact that the scope as designed exceeds the budget is delaying phase 3 for now.

Phase 3 will do some damage to a wetland complex of decent value.

The City is prepared to consider doing that, in order to complete the trail and invest in some 'mitigation'.

However, taking the trail along the east side of the river in that area, as proposed is still quite expensive. I don't believe the construction option was settled, but might be vehicle grade, metal boardwalk on piles, or could involve other expensive techniques to reduce damage in an environmentally sensitive area.

Not cheap.

The project is also costly because Metrolinx is insisting on universal grade separation of the trail from its track; the number of bridges, including river crossings is a bit nuts.

****

The preferred option was to go up the west side of the river in this area, using land at the edge of the golf course.

Some of that land is public land (TRCA), some is private.

The golf course did not want to play ball.

As such the City moved to an option on the west side of the river that is much more controversial. Between that and rising costs, phase 3 is delayed.

I believe there is some hope the Golf Course may yet be persuaded.

In the meantime, both of the phases being constructed are useful.

The southerly linkage connects the Forks of the Don, and trails from the Lower Don, West Don (ET Seton Park) and Taylor Creek, and links them up to Bermondsey and the Gatineau Trail (east of Bermondsey is a different funding envelope and project team, but it is proceeding)

The northerly phase will allow access from Wynford Drive, Moccasin Park and Milne Hollow down to Wigmore Park, with access to Sloane Avenue (Bermondsey).

Progress, in increments.

Thats really unfortunate. I am guessing that means Phase 3 will miss out on the federal government money for bike projects?

I'm surprised the golf course was able to say no; I listened to a podcast by Malcolm Gladwell that claimed that all golf courses in Toronto must be deemed public land by law.

 

[Northern Light]

This raises a serious change I've had to institute since the tick problem has become so acute. I almost always cycle distance in shorts, with socks rolled down to the ankles (parly for ankle protection when cutting through brush) but my habits have severely changed lately since in Canada (for what are probably good reasons, but everything is a balance of factors) "Tick Spray" is an oxymoron in terms. It's questionable whether DEET is effective even as a deterrent, let alone kill ticks, and beyond that, no other really effective spray is available.

I was searching for new ways into Hamilton yesterday from the west, there's some incredible roads and trails there, and was just searching Google to review some trail shortcuts to access the TH&B trail, there's quite a few, but Hamilton area is a real hot-spot for ticks, warning signs up on all the trails, and stories in the press.

I *love* finding those incredible back lanes and trails away from traffic, but....

Question: Has anyone found anything better than DEET to at least deter ticks? Some sources claim DEET is almost completely ineffective, and I don't mind exploring 'unassumed roads' in the least, regular bugs are just a nuisance, but ticks are a very serious issue. Middletown Road, for instance, is now 'off-limits' for me to use on the trail part until I can find something proven to deal with ticks. There's some incredible stretches on that trail just south of the 401.

Anyone?

When I hike, I always wear pants, typically light-coloured rip-stop quick-dry pants; and similar long-sleeved shirts.

If that's not feasible, a few other thoughts.


From the Federal website on Lyme disease:

It is recommended that Canadians travelling to highly Lyme endemic areas of the US and Europe, apply permethrin treatments to their clothing or use clothing pre-treated with permethrin. These products can be obtained in some travel clinics or from outdoors retailers when in the US.

*****

Here are some ways to protect yourself if you venture into wooded or forested areas within risk areas for Lyme disease:

• Wear light coloured long-sleeved shirts and pants to spot ticks more easily
• Tuck your shirt into your pants, and pull your socks over your pant legs
• Use bug spray containing DEET or Icaridin on your skin and clothing (always follow the directions on the label)
• Walk on cleared paths or walkways
• Shower or bathe within two hours of being outdoors to facilitate a prompt tick check and to remove ticks that have not attached yet
• Do a daily full-body check for ticks on yourself and your children, especially in the hair, under the arms, in and around the ears, inside the belly button, behind the knees, between the legs and around the waist
• If you find an attached tick, remove it with tweezers immediately. Removing it within 24-36 hours can help prevent infection.
• Do a tick check on your outdoor gear and your pets as they could carry ticks inside your home
• Put dry outdoor clothes in a dryer on high heat for 10 minutes to kill any remaining ticks. If your clothes are damp, additional drying time is needed. If you need to wash your clothes first, hot water is recommended. If the clothes cannot be washed in hot water, tumble dry on low heat for 90 minutes or high heat for 60 minutes.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/lyme-disease/prevention-lyme-disease.html

 

[Northern Light]

Thats really unfortunate. I am guessing that means Phase 3 will miss out on the federal government money for bike projects?

I'm surprised the golf course was able to say no; I listened to a podcast by Malcolm Gladwell that claimed that all golf courses in Toronto must be deemed public land by law.

Bit more complicated than that.

This golf course is a mixture of private land (but publicly regulated), and TRCA land, which is leased to the Golf Course. That lease was extended again not so long ago, as was one at Donalda.

My recollection is that there was no public consultation on either lease agreement, which I view as problematic.

There are 5 publicly owned/operated courses, plus additional private courses, some entirely on public land, others mostly on private land.

There is a tax treatment scheme (property tax) that is inordinately favourable to courses, which if removed might make most or all non-viable in Toronto, but that's a different matter.

 

[robmausser]

There is a tax treatment scheme (property tax) that is inordinately favourable to courses, which if removed might make most or all non-viable in Toronto, but that's a different matter.

Yeah that was the focus of Gladwells podcast, some of the courses in the USA pay like a dollar a year in property taxes.

Its really unfortunate, because this don east extension is like an intersection for a large number of trails in Toronto.

 

[steveintoronto]

Wait, your thyroid cancer helped you be hyper-kinetic?

The behavioural template and the total thyroid replacement dose, which is very high to suppress tissue regrowth both are very high. That high dose ostensibly could/should be reduced due to other consequences, but since recurrence has been a problem, it's a balancing act. My joints are taking a beating, but somehow surviving by critical seat, handlebar, pedal clip and and shoe adjustment. And Winter's a bitch where I climb the walls like a caged animal.

Thats really unfortunate. I am guessing that means Phase 3 will miss out on the federal government money for bike projects?

I suspect the Feds aren't a concern as much as Doug is. I mean, what could be better for society than cheap beer, cheap gas and coal power? Only the elites could think otherwise...

When I hike, I always wear pants, typically light-coloured rip-stop quick-dry pants; and similar long-sleeved shirts.

Yeah, searched all those site endlessly, and it is possible to wear removable leggings when in the bush, but it's more stuff to carry. I travel very light. A spray as is available in other nations, even though it has health concerns, would be the answer, which brings me to permethrins:

It is recommended that Canadians travelling to highly Lyme endemic areas of the US and Europe, apply permethrin treatments to their clothing or use clothing pre-treated with permethrin. These products can be obtained in some travel clinics or from outdoors retailers when in the US.

How ironic the same government that bans its use for humans in Canada recommends its use when outside the nation!

There is a loop-hole in the law evidently. You can order it online, and customs won't stop it being delivered, you just can't buy it from Cdn shelves. It is allowed (IIRC) to be used to apply to tents, but not to skin. I'll keep looking. I suspect that the issue is going to have to be revisited.

Posted along the TH&B trail, and I suspect others in Hamilton. This was by Fortinos close to Dundas. That was from last year, the problem has multiplied this year.

Why you can't find anti-tick clothing for sale in Canada, but can in the U.S.

In Canada, permethrin-treated clothing is only marketed to be used against mosquitoes
Emma Smith · CBC News · Posted: Jun 23, 2018 1:11 PM AT | Last Updated: June 23
[...]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...me-disease-permethrin-health-canada-1.4718278

Something has to give on this. I'd only spray it on my cycling shoes and thick all-wool socks rolled down to a triple layer around the ankles. Contrary to claims otherwise, I can feel them if they're on my skin, and flick them away. It's on the socks and shoes that I worry most, as the shoes are vented albeit it's a fine mesh.

Btw: I find the static depictions of what a tick looks like to be very ineffective. It wasn't until I watch vids on Youtube that I realized: "I know those, OMG! I've seen many!"

Just tried to find the vids I watched, there's so many on line now, but when shown on blades of grass, they look very different than the still pics, and that's when I recognized that I'vemh seen many.

Here's a good one:

I am going to buy tweezers though now that I think about it. Virtually zero weight, and tiny in my back-pack. I've also found the non-aerosol pumps for squirting on DEET very poor at getting behind your legs and backs of socks and shoes, and the back of neck and head for horse/deer flies. My replacement now my finger pump is empty will be aerosol. It also tends to apply much more evenly. Beware though! Remove glasses! The spray permanently etches plastic lenses.

lol...makes you wonder what's worse, the cause or the cure...I have been using DEET in the hope that it has some residual deterrent from ticks lingering long enough to crawl into the top of the shoes or socks. It does work *somewhat* in keeping deer/horse flies from landing on the head. They are dangerous, as it means taking a hand off the bars when travelling over rough terrain where they're found to swat the boogers. Sometimes you have to get up to 30 kmh or more to lose them.

Addendum: Just watching the vid linked above again. Latest studies indicate is the "electric field" emanating from living subjects that attract the ticks. Whether that's a static field or not, I don't know at this time. I'll try and find a reference on that later.

 

[mdrejhon]

Although this day is known for other things elsewhere in the world, it's the 3rd anniversary of my bicycle rebuttal in this thread.

In this uncertain mayoral times and the struggle for Toronto's streets, I am reposting my 3-year-old post again. Happy birthday, rebuttal post!

----Historical 2015 Post Follows----

[Rebuttal Salvo #1]

sounds like a fad to me.

No trees and no bikes in Amsterdam, 1972.

Bikes were a fad in 1972.

View attachment 54665 View attachment 54660
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Citzens blocked streets, the mayor was persuaded, and eventually the citizenry won out -- bike infrastructure grew and grew then. As you can see in this YouTube, this was way, way before 2008.

Although most cities are not nearly as activist as this, similar citizen pressures occured in some cities such as Minneapolis in the 1990s, and now they are ranked as one of the top 20 bikeable cities in the world -- an American city! And before 2008!

In some parts of 416 Toronto, we're already approaching (and in some cases, exceeding) Amsterdam dweller densities thanks to our condo boom. In this higher-density situation (even with good transit -- Amsterdam has more subways than Toronto), car ownership becomes more useless to condo dwellers due to frustration and the closer commuting distances.

So bikes were a fad in 1972.

Yes, yes, we ain't Amsterdam, but the denser parts of 416 can be a lot closer to Minneapolis. Fad? Nah.
Our new condos ain't going away.

[/Rebuttal Salvo #1]

 

[Admiral Beez]

I don't understand why the city didn't mandate separated bike lanes on Dundas between River and Parliament. With the complete redevelopment of the space it seemed like the perfect opportunity.

 

[Northern Light]

I don't understand why the city didn't mandate separated bike lanes on Dundas between River and Parliament. With the complete redevelopment of the space it seemed like the perfect opportunity.

I really don't know either, but I can picture a brief chat, that went something like this "We already have bike lanes on Shuter, and on Gerrard, we really don't need Dundas here, that would be duplication."

Someone else might chime in with "A bit of redundancy would be okay, besides we have bike lanes on Dundas further east."

Followed by "Right, but then the Dundas cyclists will have to go North/South at Parliament, and there's no space for that. "

Without anyone ever noticing that this development covered the applicable section of Parliament and the requisite land could have been made available on that Street as well.

 

[PinkLucy]

Zero Vision.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I really don't know either, but I can picture a brief chat, that went something like this "We already have bike lanes on Shuter, and on Gerrard,

Thing is, there are no bike lanes, let alone separated paths on Gerrard between River and Parliament. In fact the road seems to narrow, pushing cyclists tightly between cars and the curb, or onto the sidewalk, especially on westbound Gerrard from Sackville to Parliament. I'm amazed no one has been killed here yet.

 

[Towered]

Zero Vision.

Classic lack of leadership at city hall. This is why Toronto is so frustrating.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Thing is, there are no bike lanes, let alone separated paths on Gerrard between River and Parliament. In fact the road seems to narrow, pushing cyclists tightly between cars and the curb, or onto the sidewalk, especially on westbound Gerrard from Sackville to Parliament. I'm amazed no one has been killed here yet.

TTC refuses to operate streetcar tracks on roads with less than 4 lanes from my understanding unless it's in it's own right of way. Getting them to agree to the curb bump outs on Roncesvalles was a huge challenge from my understanding.

Thus Gerrard retaining it's 1970's 4 lane configuration between Parliament and River - The TTC has streetcar tracks on it.

 

[Northern Light]

TTC refuses to operate streetcar tracks on roads with less than 4 lanes from my understanding unless it's in it's own right of way. Getting them to agree to the curb bump outs on Roncesvalles was a huge challenge from my understanding.

Thus Gerrard retaining it's 1970's 4 lane configuration between Parliament and River - The TTC has streetcar tracks on it.

Its worth saying that since the City controlled all or the vast majority of land in the Regent Park super blocks, it was also entirely possible to cede enough room not only for bike lanes but for an exclusive ROW for the TTC from Parliament to River, while maintain one through lane for cars in each direction.

The TTC has shown little inclination in the past to take advantage of such opportunities arguing a 400m piece of ROW is nothing or not worth their time.

I find that terribly frustrating.

Not only could such incremental measures provide material benefits, they may also be pieces of a larger puzzle over time.

They similarly lack imagination in how to use their streetcar network more effectively.

We all know the problem of the one over-loaded streetcar that then takes longer than it should at each stop as people struggle to get on and off, and the ensuing bunching.

Yet the TTC won't build any passing track, allowing the 1/2 empty streetcar in behind to jump ahead. There are spots downtown w/no parking (think Queen by the Eaton Centre, where you could 4-track and allow streetcars to pass each other.

Sigh.

That requires a modicum of foresight, and driving ambition to be better.

Some departments and agencies at the City do have that. (see Toronto Public Library) but its all too rare.

 

[amnesiajune]

Its worth saying that since the City controlled all or the vast majority of land in the Regent Park super blocks, it was also entirely possible to cede enough room not only for bike lanes but for an exclusive ROW for the TTC from Parliament to River, while maintain one through lane for cars in each direction.

That's not feasible. A separated streetcar track requires dedicated left turn lanes, which wouldn't fit onto Gerrard's current four-lane ROW.

 

[Northern Light]

That's not feasible. A separated streetcar track requires dedicated left turn lanes, which wouldn't fit onto Gerrard's current four-lane ROW.

Uhhh, did you read what you quoted?

I said the City controls all of the land adjacent to that section of Gerrard, and could have ceded (given) the necessary ROW to itself by adding land that is currently lawn, and in any event where all the buildings will be demolished.

As such, what I said is perfectly feasible.