Crises in Haiti

[Northern Light]

Haiti’s Rule of Lawlessness

Why a military intervention would only entrench the island’s problems.

www.foreignaffairs.com

The article reiterates what those of us who have followed Haiti over the decades know, its an unholy mess, rife w/corruption and extreme poverty, and has been, more or less continuously, for decades.

The piece suggests that UN/Foreign military intervention is not the answer here; I certainly agree that by itself, or done only for short-term stability any success would last no more than a few months after the foreign soldiers with/without blue helmets pull out.

The recommendation suggests an attempt to deliver 'The Montana Accord' a political manifesto of sorts among Haitian advocates for democracy and civil society reform.

I wish the piece delved into how they propose to achieve this goal.

There is some time spent on the suggestion that there is precedent for appointing a non-corrupt, Haitian Supreme Court justice as an interim ruler, which is true enough. However, the article itself notes that neither of those regimes lasted, and/or the democratic governments that succeeded them didn't make it though one electoral term. To be clear this has everything to do w/the U.S. (and others) who have consistently empowered the corrupt in Haiti and/or turned a blind eye.

I'm left uncertain as to why this time would be any different.

Transforming Haiti into a functional, sustainable, democratic, nation-state with strong institutional capacity is, at the very least, a generational project. Its one that will be enormously expensive, and ultimately be focused on the civil society side of things,.

However, one needs to calm in the streets in order to build and operate schools, to replace slums with affordable housing, to remove housing from floodplain and vulnerable coastal areas, to literally and figuratively rebuild the courts, the police, the civil service etc etc.

That is not a short-term project. While I'm not one to champion foreign military adventurism or colonialism, I don't see how you rebuilt Haiti without some measure of both. I'd be happy to endorse an alternative, but only one with evidence of its credulity .

I also oppose any 1/2 measure intervention here, as that just seems like a way to put foreign soldiers at risk, at considerable expense, in order to either prop up corrupt governance directly, or to provide too little support to any nascent democracy to allow it to establish let alone flourish.

 

[Northern Light]

Took me a bit, but I found an unofficial translation of the aforementioned Montana Accords:

August 30 Accord Unofficial Translation — Haiti Watch

www.haitiwatch.org

While fine as far as it goes, its all rather aspirational, and I can't see anything there that inspires my confidence that anyone in Haiti is capable of delivering.

 

[Admiral Beez]

While I'm not one to champion foreign military adventurism or colonialism, I don't see how you rebuilt Haiti without some measure of both. I'd be happy to endorse an alternative, but only one with evidence of its credulity .

Haiti cannot be fixed. Caribbean countries have but two or three revenue sources; tourism, finance/tax evasion, food/drink exports. No one is going to look to Haiti for the first two, and they can’t even feed their own people. The world might be better off if Haiti was depopulated, and its eleven million people dispersed across the globe as UN refugees.

 

[Towered]

Haiti cannot be fixed. Caribbean countries have but two or three revenue sources; tourism, finance/tax evasion, food/drink exports. No one is going to look to Haiti for the first two, and they can’t even feed their own people. The world might be better off if Haiti was depopulated, and its eleven million people dispersed across the globe as UN refugees.

This is the awful truth. It's been an independent nation for more than 220 years, and has never seen a period of prosperity. If they couldn't do it in all that time, it's never going to happen. It's an utterly failed state, and a lost cause, and throwing money into "fixing" it is a waste of resources.

 

[jje1000]

This is the awful truth. It's been an independent nation for more than 220 years, and has never seen a period of prosperity. If they couldn't do it in all that time, it's never going to happen. It's an utterly failed state, and a lost cause, and throwing money into "fixing" it is a waste of resources.

Counterpoint- Legacy of extreme debt load imposed by colonizers (France), brutal French colonialism and continual foreign US intervention
Counter-counterpoint- This legacy didn't stop the Haitian imperialism and occupation of Santo Domingo, the 1804 massacres/genocide, nor its self-inflicted crises, corruption, and exhaustion of resources

I would agree that there are nations that have done better with less, and while there are many good people in Haiti, at this point it is nearly impossible to resolve the crises through Haiti's own institutions or any off-handed approach (UN, Clinton Foundation).

 

[Northern Light]

Haiti cannot be fixed. Caribbean countries have but two or three revenue sources; tourism, finance/tax evasion, food/drink exports. No one is going to look to Haiti for the first two, and they can’t even feed their own people.

I certainly would agree its a massive challenge, expensive, and generational in nature. (nothing is getting seriously fixed in a 5 or 10 year time frame or with a mere few billion dollars).

The world might be better off if Haiti was depopulated, and its eleven million people dispersed across the globe as UN refugees.

Well that's an interesting idea, LOL

I mean, don't get me wrong, I see some theortical merit, but the politics of such an idea w/Haitians or the global community seem like a non-starter to me.

Let me then add, who gets the land in what is now Haiti after?

Also, where are we sending 11M French-Speaking dislocated persons? I have a funny feeling Canada would be asked to take a rather large portion of them, Hey Quebec, how about 2M Hatian immigrants just now? 400,000 for New Brunswick? LOL

Most of the rest to France............

Uhh.

Perhaps we need to find some other path here.

 

[jje1000]

I certainly would agree its a massive challenge, expensive, and generational in nature. (nothing is getting seriously fixed in a 5 or 10 year time frame or with a mere few billion dollars.

While I think the entire country may be too much to bite off as a singular project, I honestly wonder if the federalisation/devolution of power and the creation of semi-autonomous regions may help, though it runs antithetical to Haiti's history as a unitary nation-state modelled after France.

Rather than imposing reform from repeatedly discredited centralised institutions, perhaps implementing some form of experimentational reform throughout various regional governments may prove to be a more manageable alternative, solutions which could then be applied to other regions with international oversight, and perhaps finally scaled to the entire nation.

But let's look at things clearly, without prejudice. Haiti was in bad shape before the earthquake. Though outside forces like debt, economic sanctions, US interference and a big but diffuse and uncoordinated development community have grievously harmed the country, Haitians too are responsible for their problems. The government is weak and — although much improved in recent years — still corrupt here and there, and still plagued by internecine fighting over the tiny bits of funding that are available in a country with microscopic national coffers. Taxes are not properly collected, and well-connected families and officials fight to the death over things like where emergency response teams or bridges should be located (my province or yours?). Appropriations battles are even harder fought in the Haitian legislature than in the US Congress, and over much smaller streams of money. And powerful drug traffickers have taken refuge in this governmentally lax situation, as they have in Mexico and Colombia.

The country is also too centralized. Everything depends on the government in Port-au-Prince. All the money flows out of that great city to the provinces, when it flows at all. But with people fleeing the destroyed capital, now's a good time to consider federalizing Haiti. The countryside needs funding sources other than the usually paralyzed national legislature. Strong and honest provincial councils that can levy taxes and craft local solutions to local problems would vastly improve the quality of life, and fewer Haitians would feel compelled to move to Port-au-Prince to seek their fortune — and build slums that pancake in earthquakes.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122973575

 

[lenaitch]

The world might be better off if Haiti was depopulated, and its eleven million people dispersed across the globe as UN refugees

That wouldn't look something a reverse slave trade at all.

While I think the entire country may be too much to bite off as a singular project, I honestly wonder if the federalisation/devolution of power and the creation of semi-autonomous regions may help, though it runs antithetical to Haiti's history as a unitary nation-state modelled after France.

Rather than imposing reform from repeatedly discredited centralised institutions, perhaps implementing some form of experimentational reform throughout various regional governments may prove to be a more manageable alternative, solutions which could then be applied to other regions with international oversight, and perhaps finally scaled to the entire nation.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122973575

I'm not sure how trying to establish a bunch of smaller governments would be any easier than the luck we've had with trying to establish one. I think you would be basically carving the country up between warlords.

There is no civil infrastructure left. I think there are some similarities between Haiti and post-war Germany. The government and bureaucracy was destroyed and it took a multi-year occupation and billions of dollars to kick start it again. Not a direct parallel obviously.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That wouldn't look something a reverse slave trade at all.

I'm not sure how trying to establish a bunch of smaller governments would be any easier than the luck we've had with trying to establish one. I think you would be basically carving the country up between warlords.

There is no civil infrastructure left. I think there are some similarities between Haiti and post-war Germany. The government and bureaucracy was destroyed and it took a multi-year occupation and billions of dollars to kick start it again. Not a direct parallel obviously.

Except there was very little resistance to occupying powers in Germany; not sure if the same can be said of Haiti considering the armed elements; also the German population still have industrial expertise that are in demand;; not sure what Haiti is bringing to the table that would make it economically viable without a generational effort.

AoD

 

[lenaitch]

Except there was very little resistance to occupying powers in Germany; not sure if the same can be said of Haiti considering the armed elements; also the German population still have industrial expertise that are in demand;; not sure what Haiti is bringing to the table that would make it economically viable without a generational effort.

AoD

That's why I qualified that it was an imperfect comparison.

Although the number aren't huge, a number of Allied soldiers were deliberately killed in Germany after May 1945.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That's why I qualified that it was an imperfect comparison.

Although the number aren't huge, a number of Allied soldiers were deliberately killed in Germany after May 1945.

Honestly, it's probably more Somalia, without the religious extremism part.

AoD

 

[Admiral Beez]

Kudos for the Kenyans for stepping up, but is there any former French territory in Africa that’s itself a stable democracy that can take a leading role? Not financially, but spiritually, as it must be galling for Haitians to be once again beholden to predominantly white countries for their salvation. Of course France put them in this current condition.

Why ex-French colonies in Africa seem beset by coups – DW – 08/30/2023

Some former French colonies in Africa are fast gaining notoriety for military coups. Experts blame the worrying trend on high levels of poverty, poor governance, excessive French influence and ineffective civil society.

www.dw.com

 

[lenaitch]

Kudos for the Kenyans for stepping up, but is there any former French territory in Africa that’s itself a stable democracy that can take a leading role? Not financially, but spiritually, as it must be galling for Haitians to be once again beholden to predominantly white countries for their salvation. Of course France put them in this current condition.

Why ex-French colonies in Africa seem beset by coups – DW – 08/30/2023

Some former French colonies in Africa are fast gaining notoriety for military coups. Experts blame the worrying trend on high levels of poverty, poor governance, excessive French influence and ineffective civil society.

www.dw.com

I don't know if it is a direct fact in this case but one of the reasons smaller and less developed countries step up for UN gigs is they get a good chunk of their military and/or police budget paid for. Good on them, and possibly some Caribbean countries stepping up. The optics of Haitians being killed and repressed by White western soldiers was never going to play well.