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Condos @ Yonge & Eglinton

investor said:
Again, why crowd with the room when he can contact the seller himself? Just go to www.mls.ca. You want him to pay an extra $10,000 for clicking a mouse?

And by the way, his lawyer and far more responsibilities and obligations to his client than you do. A lawyer's ability to protect his client is of paramount importance.
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As I said, anyone is free to do anything they want. Go ahead and use mls.ca. The only problem with that is most good properties are sold within a few days of being placed on the agents version of MLS which is torontomls.net. It can take up to a week to have mls.ca updated with new listings. Many times, the best places are sold before they hit mls.ca.

Also, if you contact the listing agent and work with them will they tell you everything you need to know?? They will probably show you selective comparables that sold for higher amounts but often times leave out important details which account for the price difference. Even if they don't do this (because they aren't supposed to) how can you ever know for sure?? So go ahead and save $10000 off the purchase price which is $20000 too high if you want to. What you are suggesting is like buying a car without having your own mechanic check it out. Just believe whatever the seller tells you.

As I said, if you have knowledge of the market (like if you are a mechanic yourself) then sure go for it. If you don't then it makes sense to work with an agent.

And by the way, lawyers have ZERO responsibility for making sure you pay a fair price. They don't care if you pay too much for a place as long as the contract is legally sound and there are no other legal issues with regards to the property.
 
investor said:
Here come the flippers- look out below. Just counted 16 units for sale on MLS! How many have even taken occupancy?
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there's actually 13 for sale -- 3 of them are sold conditionally which mls.ca wouldn't tell you.
 
How many units are there in the south tower? 800+? 2% doesn't seem particularly high number of flippers to my uneducated eye.

[edit] and no, I don't have any stake in the building.
 
Bumbarass said:
As I said, anyone is free to do anything they want. Go ahead and use mls.ca. The only problem with that is most good properties are sold within a few days of being placed on the agents version of MLS which is torontomls.net. It can take up to a week to have mls.ca updated with new listings. Many times, the best places are sold before they hit mls.ca.
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I am sure there is a market for those that require use of knowledgeable agents, no arguement there. What I have a problem with is the forced monopoly on the real estate market as only agents have access to real time version of mls. I look at it this way, there use to be a time in the capital markets where most would use a full brokerage firm that charges higher commissions and you get extra services and advice. But with the advent of the internet and a slew of DIY crowd, one can basically obtain a professional direct to market trading platform and play with the big boys directly with minimal middle men commissions. That is what I would like to see happen in the real estate market. Level the playing field so EVERYONE has access to the SAME information at the SAME time and let the market decide who needs full agent representation and who wants to DIY.
 
lowesthangingfruit said:
I am sure there is a market for those that require use of knowledgeable agents, no arguement there. What I have a problem with is the forced monopoly on the real estate market as only agents have access to real time version of mls. I look at it this way, there use to be a time in the capital markets where most would use a full brokerage firm that charges higher commissions and you get extra services and advice. But with the advent of the internet and a slew of DIY crowd, one can basically obtain a professional direct to market trading platform and play with the big boys directly with minimal middle men commissions. That is what I would like to see happen in the real estate market. Level the playing field so EVERYONE has access to the SAME information at the SAME time and let the market decide who needs full agent representation and who wants to DIY.
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No argument with that reasoning. Given the entrenched position of the larger realtors the only way for this to occur is with heavy lobbying efforts in Ottawa.

Full service real estate brokerage has value, but not to everyone as Bum-ass and his kind would lead you to believe.
 
Lowesthanging: Who exactly would pay to set up and operate such a system? And who exactly would feed information into it? You surely aren't expecting real estate agents to enthusiastically support such a system by providing their listings, given that you seem to want such a system specifically so that you can circumvent the agents?

I've argued that most sensible buyers would want a capable agent representing them. But there are options for those who don't want that. The mls.ca site has a lot of listings, although not all of them. (BTW the name of this site will probably be changing soon, as there is apparently widespread misconception that it is a source for all of the MLS listings, which is not the case at all.) You also have more than one free publication widely available, not to mention ads in the Star, etc. You are also free to simply cruise a neighbourhood which appeals to you, and look for signs.
 
Observer Walt said:
Lowesthanging: Who exactly would pay to set up and operate such a system? And who exactly would feed information into it? You surely aren't expecting real estate agents to enthusiastically support such a system by providing their listings, given that you seem to want such a system specifically so that you can circumvent the agents?

I've argued that most sensible buyers would want a capable agent representing them. But there are options for those who don't want that. The mls.ca site has a lot of listings, although not all of them. (BTW the name of this site will probably be changing soon, as there is apparently widespread misconception that it is a source for all of the MLS listings, which is not the case at all.) You also have more than one free publication widely available, not to mention ads in the Star, etc. You are also free to simply cruise a neighbourhood which appeals to you, and look for signs.
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The mls.ca system is an anti-trust matter. I'm not sure what it will take to get the courts to wake up to this monopoly but in time I'm certain they will as they are now doing in America.

If you have 1/2 a brain you can do your own homework and figure out what a property is worth. Then show up at the open house without a broker and you'll find the listing agent is your new best friend. He might even be willing to knock a few grand off his commission because you were smart enough to avoid the double-ended commission.

I'm sure Century Twenty-Walt and his realtor cronies are now going to try and scare you into believing that an agent can actually protect you from problems! If you're afraid to negotiate yourself don't bother but if you have any ability to bargain you are better off. Again your lawyer (the guy who went to law school for 3 years and passed the bar exam) is in a better position to protect you than the guy with a high school diploma and a 6 week certification. That's just common sense.
 
investor said:
No argument with that reasoning. Given the entrenched position of the larger realtors the only way for this to occur is with heavy lobbying efforts in Ottawa.

Full service real estate brokerage has value, but not to everyone as Bum-ass and his kind would lead you to believe.
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I'm done talking about this subject. You are just being ignorant and insulting and I'm not interested in trying to have an intelligent discussion with people who display these characteristics. Don't bother replying as I will not be checking this thread anymore.
 
Bumbarass said:
I'm done talking about this subject. You are just being ignorant and insulting and I'm not interested in trying to have an intelligent discussion with people who display these characteristics. Don't bother replying as I will not be checking this thread anymore.
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you want me to debate intelligence with a real estate agent? Isn't that an oxymoron! Please, you guys are all so very transparent and obvious. The home buyer of 2008 is not the home buyer of 1988. What has your organization done to keep up with the changes aside from continue your monopolistic commission structure?

Pitiful Bumbleass, pitiful.
 
You win on this one Investor. I can't stop laughing when I read commentary coming out of a bumbarass

Hope to God he isn't responsible for naming condo projects. Actually that would be funny! :D
 
Observer Walt said:
Lowesthanging: Who exactly would pay to set up and operate such a system? And who exactly would feed information into it? You surely aren't expecting real estate agents to enthusiastically support such a system by providing their listings, given that you seem to want such a system specifically so that you can circumvent the agents?

I've argued that most sensible buyers would want a capable agent representing them. But there are options for those who don't want that. The mls.ca site has a lot of listings, although not all of them. (BTW the name of this site will probably be changing soon, as there is apparently widespread misconception that it is a source for all of the MLS listings, which is not the case at all.) You also have more than one free publication widely available, not to mention ads in the Star, etc. You are also free to simply cruise a neighbourhood which appeals to you, and look for signs.
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The system is ALREADY in place, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. All I am saying is take the model of the capital markets and transplant it into the real estate market. It doesn't take a brainiac to figure out that it is already moving towards that way with these "low commission" real estate brokerage firms popping up. I am just waiting for the day when a discount firm opens up and offers monthly subscription to real time mls info. direct to consumers. There would be a huge back lash intially from the traditional brokerage firms but after awhile, they will be forced to look at that model similar to what banks are doing now in cutting their commissions and loads to compete with the discount brokerage firms. Next step would be setting up some sort of regulated central clearing house for all buy and sell offers to go through with COMPLETE transparency instead of this hidden phantom bid bull shit that happens now. Finally, similar to how companies on stock exchanges have certain regulatory requirements in terms of what they have to report and when they have to report it, properties should be treated the same if they are going to list on this central registry. This would make buying and selling real estate MUCH SAFER and more liquid then the system now which relies on after the fact legal actions to settle disputes.

I know agents would hate this type of system, but if they are smart, they can actually profit from this. Well, it looks like Investor and I would be the only ones buying into this utopia so what do you say Investor, let's start a firm and revolutionize this industry ??:D
 
lowesthangingfruit said:
The system is ALREADY in place, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. All I am saying is take the model of the capital markets and transplant it into the real estate market. It doesn't take a brainiac to figure out that it is already moving towards that way with these "low commission" real estate brokerage firms popping up. I am just waiting for the day when a discount firm opens up and offers monthly subscription to real time mls info. direct to consumers. There would be a huge back lash intially from the traditional brokerage firms but after awhile, they will be forced to look at that model similar to what banks are doing now in cutting their commissions and loads to compete with the discount brokerage firms. Next step would be setting up some sort of regulated central clearing house for all buy and sell offers to go through with COMPLETE transparency instead of this hidden phantom bid bull shit that happens now. Finally, similar to how companies on stock exchanges have certain regulatory requirements in terms of what they have to report and when they have to report it, properties should be treated the same if they are going to list on this central registry. This would make buying and selling real estate MUCH SAFER and more liquid then the system now which relies on after the fact legal actions to settle disputes.

I know agents would hate this type of system, but if they are smart, they can actually profit from this. Well, it looks like Investor and I would be the only ones buying into this utopia so what do you say Investor, let's start a firm and revolutionize this industry ??:D
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I've got access to significant private equity capital to execute that brilliant plan. I also know a few good security teams to protect us from the backlash from the entrenched interested parties.
 
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