Condo questions

[snypr]

Hi there,

I bought a new pre-built condo building from Concord and it scheduled to finish Dec 2009. Just want to get some feedback on pre-built condos in and condo living. I break up my questions into sections.

Pre-built
1. How good are builders with interim closing dates? Are they often pushed back, and if so, how much?
2. I have to put four 5% downpayments in first year and another one on interim closing date. Will I be able to move in after paying the interim payment amount or do I have to get my mortgage to kick in at that time?
3. The builders give us estimates on floor plan, but nothing written in the contract or brochure. How good are they at giving you exactly what they told you?
4. How good are builders with giving you what is in their brochure? Like if you see dual sinks, you get dual sinks.

Condo living
1. I've read my brochure and see all the amenities and it all sounds great, but do I still have to pay extra for some of them on top of my condo fee? I think gym and pool is probably included, but what about game room, party room, movie room, guest suites, etc...
2. How is the gym organized usually? Is it scheduled for certain games/sports or whoever is there does whatever they want.
3. Is there some kind of pass to get into these amenities or anyone can just walk into them?

More to come when they pop back into my mind. Thanks.

 

[BobBob]

You should probably have asked these questions before buying the place. Now it's academic.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Hi there,

I bought a new pre-built condo building from Concord and it scheduled to finish Dec 2009. Just want to get some feedback on pre-built condos in and condo living. I break up my questions into sections.

Pre-built
1. How good are builders with interim closing dates? Are they often pushed back, and if so, how much?
2. I have to put four 5% down payments in first year and another one on interim closing date. Will I be able to move in after paying the interim payment amount or do I have to get my mortgage to kick in at that time?
3. The builders give us estimates on floor plan, but nothing written in the contract or brochure. How good are they at giving you exactly what they told you?
4. How good are builders with giving you what is in their brochure? Like if you see dual sinks, you get dual sinks.

Condo living
1. I've read my brochure and see all the amenities and it all sounds great, but do I still have to pay extra for some of them on top of my condo fee? I think gym and pool is probably included, but what about game room, party room, movie room, guest suites, etc...
2. How is the gym organized usually? Is it scheduled for certain games/sports or whoever is there does whatever they want.
3. Is there some kind of pass to get into these amenities or anyone can just walk into them?

More to come when they pop back into my mind. Thanks.

Based on my experience in the condo market I'll offer my opinions and what I have learned over the years -

Prebuilt
1. Very often delayed, sometimes by 1 or 2 years. Keep an eye on construction progress.
2. This varies, discuss with your real estate lawyer. Generally you don't take out your mortgage until the building is handed over. Be prepared at closing to pay other closing related charges such as sewer impost fees etc. Talk to your lawyer so that you are financially prepared.
3. More often than not the dimensions listed on the floorplan are larger than what you get. A floorplan is not a legal document. The plan you have on paper can sometimes change dramatically. What is written and included in your Purchase and Sale Agreement is what you are legally entitled to.
4. A brochure is not a legal document, it is a only a marketing tool. What you end up with and the quality of materials used can vary wildly. Your purchase and sale agreement outlines exactly what you get. Anything beyond that is out of your control.

Condo Living
1. Refer to your P & S Agreement for costs over and above your maintenance fees. Generally there is no cost to use the facilities but often there can be security deposits required to use party rooms, home theatre rooms, board rooms etc. in case damage or cleaning costs are incurred. There is often a nominal fee established to rent guest suites also.
2. I think you'll just have to wait and see here, every condo is different.
3. Usually access to amenity areas, parking garage, roof decks etc. are on a master key that you will be given, or more commonly by using a computerized FOB system.

I hope some of this helps. For definitive answers to your some of your questions familiarize yourself with your P & S Agreement.

 

[SpadinaBus]

Go watch the "condo crunch" CBC marketplace segment, available to watch on the web. Many of these issues are discussed.

 

[mikeUrban]

I'm on King West and my condo was delayed 14 months. It took around 4 months for the building to "close" during which time you have to pay "phantom rent". Phase I took 8 months to "close". The worst thing about the delayed occupancy was that the last delay (4 in total) was relayed to me a few weeks prior to move-in and this caused a bit of havoc as I had already given notice at the apartment I was living at.

 

[Petra]

Pre-built
1. How good are builders with interim closing dates? Are they often pushed back, and if so, how much?
2. I have to put four 5% downpayments in first year and another one on interim closing date. Will I be able to move in after paying the interim payment amount or do I have to get my mortgage to kick in at that time?
3. The builders give us estimates on floor plan, but nothing written in the contract or brochure. How good are they at giving you exactly what they told you?
4. How good are builders with giving you what is in their brochure? Like if you see dual sinks, you get dual sinks.

Condo living
1. I've read my brochure and see all the amenities and it all sounds great, but do I still have to pay extra for some of them on top of my condo fee? I think gym and pool is probably included, but what about game room, party room, movie room, guest suites, etc...
2. How is the gym organized usually? Is it scheduled for certain games/sports or whoever is there does whatever they want.
3. Is there some kind of pass to get into these amenities or anyone can just walk into them?

1. expect delays
2. You will be able to move in after the downpayments. Your mortgage kicks in when official condo title/registration is signed, which by law, cannot be more than 6 months after closing date
3. Your contract/schedules should include floorplan. That floorplan is part of the contract, though the real condo most likely be just a bit smaller. The current condo I live in, has almost precise measurement to the original floorplan.
4. If they say dual sink, you will get dual sink. They're required to notify you for any changes made to the plan

 

[investor]

Hi there,

I bought a new pre-built condo building from Concord and it scheduled to finish Dec 2009.

Big mistake. Huge. Get out while you can! You are obligated yourself to purchase something that doesn't even exist yet! Why would you undertake such a massive risk?

Why on earth would you buy something off a floor plan when there are hundreds of available units for sale right now in that ghastly project?

It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant some people can be when it comes to what typically is the biggest purchase in their lifetime.

 

[snypr]

Honestly I think your statement has little merrit, there's always a risk buying a home regardless if it is new or not. Do you really think a used home is defect free? And if we were to follow your advice, we all be living in 50 year old homes as nothing will be built. I rather have a new place then an old place and that is the reason.

Another reason is some people can't move now, so it's better to buy now rather than pay the market price 2-3 years from now.

Big mistake. Huge. Get out while you can! You are obligated yourself to purchase something that doesn't even exist yet! Why would you undertake such a massive risk?

Why on earth would you buy something off a floor plan when there are hundreds of available units for sale right now in that ghastly project?

It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant some people can be when it comes to what typically is the biggest purchase in their lifetime.

 

[snypr]

Thanks for the reply, I'm expecting delays but I want to move in and then have the builder delay closing is my hope. I'm hoping my floorplans are going to be as said because in the contract they have the right to change plans and stuff without notice.

1. expect delays
2. You will be able to move in after the downpayments. Your mortgage kicks in when official condo title/registration is signed, which by law, cannot be more than 6 months after closing date
3. Your contract/schedules should include floorplan. That floorplan is part of the contract, though the real condo most likely be just a bit smaller. The current condo I live in, has almost precise measurement to the original floorplan.
4. If they say dual sink, you will get dual sink. They're required to notify you for any changes made to the plan

 

[investor]

Honestly I think your statement has little merrit, there's always a risk buying a home regardless if it is new or not. Do you really think a used home is defect free? And if we were to follow your advice, we all be living in 50 year old homes as nothing will be built. I rather have a new place then an old place and that is the reason.

OLD? There are thousands of units in CityPlace built within the past 5 years! If you consider that old then I suspect your appreciation of real estate prices and value is severely flawed. Here's a hint- don't treat real estate like a car- while the building (concrete, glass, plumbing etc), will depreciate like car a better location (ie not next to the Skydome, wedged between the train tracks and the Gardiner) will appreciate. Weaker locations, such as the one described, will not keep pace with inflation and will probably never been worth more than the moment you buy them- similar to a car in that regard.

 

[aiekon]

Thanks for the reply, I'm expecting delays but I want to move in and then have the builder delay closing is my hope.

This is exactly why I decided to purchase presale as well. I moved here from Winnipeg almost three years ago and at the time knew that I wasn't able to afford a mortage. Thus, I bought presale (not at Concord) about two years ago knowing that I'd be in a financially better position when the development is finally complete, which will be sometime at the end of this year or early next year. And as snypr said, the more delays the better! Atleast this gives me a little more time to save for furniture, etc.

Now imagine if I were to wait to buy something now. Many of my friends and colleagues are locked out of buying a condo (resale/presale) because they can't afford what's available today. I was able to purchase a 1+den (750 sq ft) in the heart of downtown for roughly $215,000. It would be difficult to find something in that size within that price range today.

 

[investor]

This is exactly why I decided to purchase presale as well. I moved here from Winnipeg almost three years ago and at the time knew that I wasn't able to afford a mortage. Thus, I bought presale (not at Concord) about two years ago knowing that I'd be in a financially better position when the development is finally complete, which will be sometime at the end of this year or early next year. And as snypr said, the more delays the better! Atleast this gives me a little more time to save for furniture, etc.

Now imagine if I were to wait to buy something now. Many of my friends and colleagues are locked out of buying a condo (resale/presale) because they can't afford what's available today. I was able to purchase a 1+den (750 sq ft) in the heart of downtown for roughly $215,000. It would be difficult to find something in that size within that price range today.

Sounds like a decent buy at under $300 per square foot. Where is it?

Tell your friends that big discounts are coming in the later part of 2008 all over the GTA. They will get in at Winnipeg prices!

 

[cuzzin_elias]

Tell your friends that big discounts are coming in the later part of 2008 all over the GTA. They will get in at Winnipeg prices!

Can you elaborate on this?

 

[aiekon]

I was able to purchase a 1+den (750 sq ft) in the heart of downtown for roughly $215,000. It would be difficult to find something in that size within that price range today.

Whoops, I meant to say that I purchased a 1+den for 650 sq ft, which would roughly make the price per square footage $330.

 

[ganjavih]

Can you elaborate on this?

Don't encourage him.