News   Jan 09, 2025
News Roundup for January 9, 2025
 10     0 
News   Jan 09, 2025
The Naked City
 229     0 
News   Jan 08, 2025
50 Scollard Tops Off as Cladding and Glazing Installation Continues
 1.1K     0 

CNN Travel-Toronto

"If you were to rank them by percent foreign born, then Miami would come before Toronto (which is second), due to the Cubans and other immigrants from Latin America."

That can also be misleading. It's for the city of Miami, 375,000 people. When you look at metro-wide figures, Toronto (CMA, 4.4M people, 2001) is 43.7% foreign born, while Miami (metro - miami-dade + broward + palm beach counties, 5.3M people, 2005) is 36.6% foreign born. But these are just statistics. Toronto might be considered more multicultural not just because of the sheer variety of cultures but because they are found throughout the metro area...Toronto is largely unghettoized, which must count for something.

"but I think there are also a lot of Torontonians who pronounce both t's."

Many, if not most, of these Torontonians haved moved here, picking up the second T along the way.
 
I get asked about my race as a matter of conversation here in Toronto constantly because I am mixed. How people approach the subject depends on who they are. Immigrants and members of ethnic minorities always ask "where are you from?" or "what are you?", people who self-identify as Canadian alway ask "what is your background?" or "what is your heritage?".
 
Personally I always drop the second T. I wonder why so many people do drop it in the first place? Isn't that kinda odd just to ignore a consonant like that? Still, hearing someone pronounce the second T immediately identifies them, to me, as someone from not around here. Or, since I live in Mississauga, as someone who doesn't go to Toronto a lot, if at all.
 
I always pronounce both T's- but perhaps it's because I haven't been here long enough.
 
"Personally I always drop the second T. I wonder why so many people do drop it in the first place? Isn't that kinda odd just to ignore a consonant like that? Still, hearing someone pronounce the second T immediately identifies them, to me, as someone from not around here. Or, since I live in Mississauga, as someone who doesn't go to Toronto a lot, if at all."

As mentioned before, this phenomenon is called 'flapping' and it is a feature of English as spoken in North America: when a 't' or a 'd' is surrounded by vowels, the value of the consonent is lost. Compare 'ladder' and 'latter'. In England the difference would be clear, but not in North America. Americans will over-pronounce the second 'T' in Toronto because it is not an overly familiar word to them.

"The big question is how on earth you could quantify such as claim as "most multicultural"?

Sometimes I think the myth is more important than the reality.


I found it interesting that the article mentions a number of sites it does (the Distillery, St. Lawrence Market, the Bata Shoe Museum and the Niagara winerys), and omits certain other more common sites like the Eaton Centre or Niagara Falls!
 
Personally I always drop the second T. I wonder why so many people do drop it in the first place? Isn't that kinda odd just to ignore a consonant like that?
Click to expand...

Not odd at all. At conversational speed, most words undergo changes in pronunciation. It is common across the world's languages to see both consonants and vowels reduce or drop out in all positions.

Most literate (as opposed to illiterate) people's perceptions are skewed by spelling. We tend to think we are articulating all of the letters we read and write. If you could see a phonetic transcription of what you actually say, you would probably be amazed.
 
Nevertheless, I do notice a distinction in the way Torontonians regard visible minorities. Americans seem to focus on race; the first question I get from many Americans is my line of descent (although as you can guess, the actual question is almost always the blunt "Where are you from?). Torontonians are much more likely to view race as simply one of many individual characteristics; I rarely get asked that question when meeting locals, and if so, it is never the first question out of a stranger's mouth.
Click to expand...

That is definitely more common now, but I'm not sure it's the norm. Growing up here, it was quite common to be asked what I was...if I said Canadian, they'd (this question would typically be from a person of European descent) say 'But what are you really?', as if I couldn't "really" be a Canadian since I suppose I didn't fit the stereotypical mode. The funny thing is, if I then asked them the same question, they'd respond "Canadian". When I asked 'But what are you really?', they'd just give me an odd look and say 'I just told you...Canadian'.

Definitely a double-standard.

Nowdays it's not as common, but you still do get it occasionally.
 
Sure - I've experienced that too, but not since I was (much) younger. (Back then, the question was most commonly phrased, "What are you?")

These days, anyone who tried to employ that double standard would be in for a good scolding.
 
In my experiences, [white] "Canadians" will almost invariably identify their background/race/whatever when prompted, but I'd say the issue pops up more often from questioning the origin of one's last name rather than questioning a person's origin based on their skin.
 
What, no quote about Ustinov comparing it to NY run by the Swiss?
 
Many circles of immigrants and second-generation Canadians refer to white northern Europeans as "Canadians." I find it to be a somewhat unfortunate practice, since it clearly suggests a feeling of separation from mainstream "Canadian" society, but it isn't usually used in an embittered way. It's just a more modern synonym for "WASPs."
 
I guess all groups have to question their own racist stereotypes.
 
Many circles of immigrants and second-generation Canadians refer to white northern Europeans as "Canadians."
Click to expand...
My Italian relatives constantly do this, even the younger generations. It's quite weird. They even call filtered coffee "Canadian coffee." I always have to tell them that there's no such thing as Canadian coffee!
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top