Here is a comment posted by “JusHinton†on my blog post from Tuesday, April 17th, 2012.
Thanks again to all of my blog readers who take the time and effort to post comments, whether they agree or disagree with my opinions.
David. I enjoy reading your blog and will continue to do so despite your CityPlace obsession but I’ll give you the first defence for CP (as you are already anticipating) and tell you why you have so many angry CP lovers directing their resentment towards you.
The reason is: while you may be part correct in your assessment in some aspects of CP, you seem delusional in other aspects.
Here’s a list of problems with your analysis:
1) Differentiation
While some of the buildings and units in CityPlace may have issues, this does not describe ALL the units and buildings.
You make no point of differentiating buildings and instead, treat the entire development as a disaster. The truth is some buildings AND specific units have developed negative reputations while others are loved by the residents and have great water views, etc. This actually undermines your core argument because plenty of people are wise enough to identify this contradiction. They meet many CP residents who love where they live and a few others who are disappointed.
Also, locations within CP can offer easy access to different areas. Some people live on Front St. close to the city and others on the East side of Spadina on Bremmer close to the airport. These are totally different places with different advantages/disadvantages.
2) Falling Glass and Condo Problems
You pick on CP with a special amplified disdain, even though plenty of celebrated buildings in Toronto have gotten negative reviews from owners and had falling glass issues. For instance, the Trump Tower and TIFF building which command upwards $700 per square foot and are considered prime addresses in the core have also had falling glass, yet you have no article bashing them with such glee as you have above.
TIFF especially has had a rash of high-profile incidents despite Miele appliances and claims of “luxury†living…..
http://www.thestar.com/news/article...t-closures-after-glass-falls-from-trump-tower
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20110803/tiff-bell-lightbox-glass-110803/
Issues with new condos are quite common, not just in Toronto, but in most places around the world.
One could argue easily that CP gets more press because of its location and high-visibility. (In fact, let me add -Toronto’s building codes are very conservative by many standard south of the Canada).
3) The “Location†Argument
You insist that CP is poorly located, yet that argument seems presumptuous.
Agreed that visiting CP east of Spadina has no real attractions (right now). But for one, the neighborhood is not nearly complete and some new developments may help bolster its perception BY THOSE who feel it is poorly located.
For instance, the South-Core movement, the Globe-and-Mail building revamp, the Library, the Aquarium at the CN Tower and the possible Whole Foods at Front and Bathurst could all help bolster the perception of the surrounding area.
The Front St. buildings were once surrounded by nothing but now those buildings are much closer to new developments in the city.
The other point is, for many, CP is still considered to be a good location. The centre of King West is a literal 5 minutes walking distance from the Front St. condos and so is the waterfront which some people actually enjoy. The Ritz Carlton is another 7 minutes from many of the first units built. In addition, easy access to the Rogers Centre, the airport, the Thompson and the Gardiner is prized by many CP residents.
I, and many, would never want to live on King West in the middle of the drunken mayhem of the weekend but prefer close access.
4) The “CP will be Ghetto†Argument
First, one could argue the St. Jamestown comparison (that you have made previously) is poor one because St. Jamestown was never housed by the young “yuppie†single the developers hoped to attract, the building were rentals (I would estimate 50% of CP residents are actual owners) and CP is not in an area that could be easily VISIBLY “isolated†like St. Jamestown – it’s on the skyline.
In addition, at the very core of your other argument – “that CP will become a ghettoâ€, there is a bigger problem at the root. That’s Canada’s and Toronto’s reputation. CP’s Rogers Centre location would mean that CP would destroy Canada’s reputation at large because most tourists, especially American tourists who visit Roger’s Centre, the CN Tower and the soon-to-be complete Aquarium are familiar with CP and they would be left with impression that Canada is country with a slum on their skyline, as they drive in from the Gardiner.
Sorry, David, it’s just not likely that this would just happen under our noses without government officials providing input (as we now see already with Adam Vaughan). I seriously believe the Prime Minister himself would intervene if such a “ghetto†perception started brewing on the waterfront of Toronto.
5) CP Gets No Love
On the other hand, you give CP no credit for redeveloping the area when in fact, there would be probably be no King West without CityPlace residents (a long time ago) choosing the closer King st. establishments over Club-Land, nor a South-Core development for that matter. I could go on.
All I will say is that it’s the residents of CP who are flooding these areas with their disposable income.
I’m not going to pretend CityPlace is the prettiest thing in the world. It’s not to me, but it’s just not the worst eye-sore ever either.
The claims of jealousy from CP lovers are more likely because people are confused by the extremity of your attitude. Most people in CityPlace like living there and have zero issues. Most of the residents are not exactly accustom to “ghetto†life either, so some people assume incorrectly that its jealousy. I personally don’t think jealousy is at the root of your dislike. It’s simply this: CP (love it or hate it) is unfairly deemed the symbol of Toronto’s condo development because of its very visible location so it always gets the most attention (positive or negative).
It’s like the Britney Spears/Drake of Toronto condos. It’s probably not as rugged, sophisticated, specialized and cosmopolitan as it should be for Toronto. But despite the criticism, to be fair, it’s not really extremely lacking versus other condos in Toronto either. It’s more like the mainstream Top 40 artist who gets picked on as cheesy and thrown on TMZ because it’s all over the radio and not as talented as the better lesser-known underground artists. CP is not the greatest condo development nor the worst.
It’s just best price for a reasonable place.
Get over it.
I’ve tossed around the idea of an old school “Forum†on TRB, as well as a section to “Ask A Question†or “Suggest A Topic.â€
But if anybody wants to take the time and effort that the reader featured above did, to submit a feature for publication, I’m all for it.
Feel free to email me at
davidfleming@bosleyrealestate.com
Oh – and I mentioned at the onset, I’m so impressed with this response and the facts and arguments that are outlined, that I promise to give my CityPlace rants a rest for the time-being.
