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CityPlace

ybountiful

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Does anybody live in CityPlace I could talk to?

I'm trying to find owners or renters in the Optima building. -- Or any CityPlace building who can
speak honestly about life there.

Feel free to reply.

yvette@bountiful.ca
 

TORealtyBlog

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Here is a comment posted by “JusHinton†on my blog post from Tuesday, April 17th, 2012.

Thanks again to all of my blog readers who take the time and effort to post comments, whether they agree or disagree with my opinions.

David. I enjoy reading your blog and will continue to do so despite your CityPlace obsession but I’ll give you the first defence for CP (as you are already anticipating) and tell you why you have so many angry CP lovers directing their resentment towards you.

The reason is: while you may be part correct in your assessment in some aspects of CP, you seem delusional in other aspects.

Here’s a list of problems with your analysis:

1) Differentiation
While some of the buildings and units in CityPlace may have issues, this does not describe ALL the units and buildings.

You make no point of differentiating buildings and instead, treat the entire development as a disaster. The truth is some buildings AND specific units have developed negative reputations while others are loved by the residents and have great water views, etc. This actually undermines your core argument because plenty of people are wise enough to identify this contradiction. They meet many CP residents who love where they live and a few others who are disappointed.

Also, locations within CP can offer easy access to different areas. Some people live on Front St. close to the city and others on the East side of Spadina on Bremmer close to the airport. These are totally different places with different advantages/disadvantages.

2) Falling Glass and Condo Problems
You pick on CP with a special amplified disdain, even though plenty of celebrated buildings in Toronto have gotten negative reviews from owners and had falling glass issues. For instance, the Trump Tower and TIFF building which command upwards $700 per square foot and are considered prime addresses in the core have also had falling glass, yet you have no article bashing them with such glee as you have above.

TIFF especially has had a rash of high-profile incidents despite Miele appliances and claims of “luxury†living…..

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...t-closures-after-glass-falls-from-trump-tower

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20110803/tiff-bell-lightbox-glass-110803/

Issues with new condos are quite common, not just in Toronto, but in most places around the world.

One could argue easily that CP gets more press because of its location and high-visibility. (In fact, let me add -Toronto’s building codes are very conservative by many standard south of the Canada).

3) The “Location†Argument
You insist that CP is poorly located, yet that argument seems presumptuous.

Agreed that visiting CP east of Spadina has no real attractions (right now). But for one, the neighborhood is not nearly complete and some new developments may help bolster its perception BY THOSE who feel it is poorly located.

For instance, the South-Core movement, the Globe-and-Mail building revamp, the Library, the Aquarium at the CN Tower and the possible Whole Foods at Front and Bathurst could all help bolster the perception of the surrounding area.

The Front St. buildings were once surrounded by nothing but now those buildings are much closer to new developments in the city.

The other point is, for many, CP is still considered to be a good location. The centre of King West is a literal 5 minutes walking distance from the Front St. condos and so is the waterfront which some people actually enjoy. The Ritz Carlton is another 7 minutes from many of the first units built. In addition, easy access to the Rogers Centre, the airport, the Thompson and the Gardiner is prized by many CP residents.

I, and many, would never want to live on King West in the middle of the drunken mayhem of the weekend but prefer close access.

4) The “CP will be Ghetto†Argument
First, one could argue the St. Jamestown comparison (that you have made previously) is poor one because St. Jamestown was never housed by the young “yuppie†single the developers hoped to attract, the building were rentals (I would estimate 50% of CP residents are actual owners) and CP is not in an area that could be easily VISIBLY “isolated†like St. Jamestown – it’s on the skyline.

In addition, at the very core of your other argument – “that CP will become a ghettoâ€, there is a bigger problem at the root. That’s Canada’s and Toronto’s reputation. CP’s Rogers Centre location would mean that CP would destroy Canada’s reputation at large because most tourists, especially American tourists who visit Roger’s Centre, the CN Tower and the soon-to-be complete Aquarium are familiar with CP and they would be left with impression that Canada is country with a slum on their skyline, as they drive in from the Gardiner.

Sorry, David, it’s just not likely that this would just happen under our noses without government officials providing input (as we now see already with Adam Vaughan). I seriously believe the Prime Minister himself would intervene if such a “ghetto†perception started brewing on the waterfront of Toronto.

5) CP Gets No Love
On the other hand, you give CP no credit for redeveloping the area when in fact, there would be probably be no King West without CityPlace residents (a long time ago) choosing the closer King st. establishments over Club-Land, nor a South-Core development for that matter. I could go on.

All I will say is that it’s the residents of CP who are flooding these areas with their disposable income.

I’m not going to pretend CityPlace is the prettiest thing in the world. It’s not to me, but it’s just not the worst eye-sore ever either.

The claims of jealousy from CP lovers are more likely because people are confused by the extremity of your attitude. Most people in CityPlace like living there and have zero issues. Most of the residents are not exactly accustom to “ghetto†life either, so some people assume incorrectly that its jealousy. I personally don’t think jealousy is at the root of your dislike. It’s simply this: CP (love it or hate it) is unfairly deemed the symbol of Toronto’s condo development because of its very visible location so it always gets the most attention (positive or negative).

It’s like the Britney Spears/Drake of Toronto condos. It’s probably not as rugged, sophisticated, specialized and cosmopolitan as it should be for Toronto. But despite the criticism, to be fair, it’s not really extremely lacking versus other condos in Toronto either. It’s more like the mainstream Top 40 artist who gets picked on as cheesy and thrown on TMZ because it’s all over the radio and not as talented as the better lesser-known underground artists. CP is not the greatest condo development nor the worst.

It’s just best price for a reasonable place.

Get over it.

I’ve tossed around the idea of an old school “Forum†on TRB, as well as a section to “Ask A Question†or “Suggest A Topic.â€

But if anybody wants to take the time and effort that the reader featured above did, to submit a feature for publication, I’m all for it.

Feel free to email me at davidfleming@bosleyrealestate.com

Oh – and I mentioned at the onset, I’m so impressed with this response and the facts and arguments that are outlined, that I promise to give my CityPlace rants a rest for the time-being.
 

ducati0000

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CityPlace is a good project,not great.There are so many short term leasing or sub leasing you will eventually get higher rate of wear and tear on the amenities.People there seem to be well off but on the other hand police calls to this area is very high.Mostly noise and drunkingness calls but quite a few illegal activities also.Its a good place to rent but long term ownership?...no
 

moonbal

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Been living in CityPlace for about 6 years. Generally been problem free except for one thing: paper thin walls.
If you're a partying type, go away, we got enough of those already.
If you're not, then pray you don't end up next to existing partying a-holes.
 

TheKingEast

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Been living in CityPlace for about 6 years. Generally been problem free except for one thing: paper thin walls.
If you're a partying type, go away, we got enough of those already.
If you're not, then pray you don't end up next to existing partying a-holes.

This seems to be a problem at many new condos, not just Cityplace. The soundproofing is poor.

That said, I have friends that live in several Cityplace buildings. One lives in the Neo building. Walls are thin. His neighbor plays music ALL DAY. Techno. I think he's a DJ. My other buddy lives in the Matrix which is an older Cityplace building. Never heard anything there. He's on a high floor though so not sure if that matters. Another buddy is at the one along Front. It's quiet as well. I think the sound problems are in the newer buildings.
 

moonbal

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This seems to be a problem at many new condos, not just Cityplace. The soundproofing is poor.

That said, I have friends that live in several Cityplace buildings. One lives in the Neo building. Walls are thin. His neighbor plays music ALL DAY. Techno. I think he's a DJ. My other buddy lives in the Matrix which is an older Cityplace building. Never heard anything there. He's on a high floor though so not sure if that matters. Another buddy is at the one along Front. It's quiet as well. I think the sound problems are in the newer buildings.

I'm in Harbourview, 6+ years old. But then I'm on the lower floor so maybe builder went cheaper route. One night I was so pissed, I was banging on the wall cursing and ended up punching through the wall. Goddammit..
 

TheKingEast

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I'm in Harbourview, 6+ years old. But then I'm on the lower floor so maybe builder went cheaper route. One night I was so pissed, I was banging on the wall cursing and ended up punching through the wall. Goddammit..

LOL. So, is it drywall between the units? That's a good thing. You can soundproof the walls rather easily.
 

neuhaus

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Concrete structural walls are usually located between units, at least for newer condos rather than columns. A layer of drywall is glued typically directly onto the concrete, sometimes a thin furring or stud wall is built out from the concrete wall so that it is easier to run electrical and plumbing, but this requires more labour and material costs and resultes in a thicker wall.
A demising wall consisting of drywall directly applied over concrete may sound solid but it doesn't provide much sound insulation as there is no soft materials or airspace to damper noises and vibration. Concrete is good conductor of sound and vibration.
In older homes I have seen two stud walls separated with an air space and two layers of drywall with fiberglass insulation filled in the wall cavity. Though there is no rock-solid materials between the units, it provides superior sound insulation over any concrete wall construction.
 

doug

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Concrete is good conductor of sound and vibration.

Not really. Dense concrete is a good sound proofing material, flimsy drywall will conduct airborne sound easily.
Ideally, drywall over concrete or cinder block is best.
 

moonbal

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Not really. Dense concrete is a good sound proofing material, flimsy drywall will conduct airborne sound easily.
Ideally, drywall over concrete or cinder block is best.

Agreed. Used to live in a really old apartment (20+ yrs) before moving into condo. That building was pure concrete. Walls were so freakin' thick you could barely hear anything next door or above unless they opened the window.
 

TheKingEast

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Not really. Dense concrete is a good sound proofing material, flimsy drywall will conduct airborne sound easily.
Ideally, drywall over concrete or cinder block is best.

I don't agree or disagree, but concrete seems to amplify noise when it's struck....like stomping. Also, if anything is dropped or even placed on floors, the sound seems to be amplified. I don't understand how a in this day and age, we still have soundproofing issues in new construction. A 1970's condo should not be more soundproofed than a new condo.

Concrete seems to still be the best option, though.
 

doug

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but concrete seems to amplify noise when it's struck....like stomping. Also, if anything is dropped or even placed on floors, the sound seems to be amplified.

True, that's why resilient floor covering should be required....but people seem to want bare concrete or improperly installed hardwood these days....and drywall floors don't work ;)
 

TheKingEast

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True, that's why resilient floor covering should be required....but people seem to want bare concrete or improperly installed hardwood these days....and drywall floors don't work ;)

Have you seen how builders install hardwood? They put a thin piece of paper and put the wood down. How is that adequate?
 

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