City fed up with uncoordinated utility work

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Coordination is clearly needed but it is obviously not as easy as one might hope, or expect. A good case study is the work the TTC is doing to replace most of the streetcar overhead in preparation for the new streetcars. They have been installing new (replacement) poles along many streeetcar lines, unfortunately they seem to replace poles in a rather random way and will replace 3 of 5 old poles in a block and then, months later, come and do the other 2. Once the new poles are in place they generally move over their own support wires quite quickly.
As most TTC poles are also used by Hydro for streetlights (and some by Transportaton for traffic lights and a few by Bell or Rogers) it is then necessary for Hydro or Transportation or ?? to move all their wires over to the new poles. This can take years and I suspect it is because TTC has not given these other groups advance notice of their plans and this wire/streetlight moving is not on THEIR list of priorities. Once all wires are removed from a pole the TTC adds that pole to their list of 'poles to be removed' but this is a long list and it was just this summer that they finally removed all, except one, of the trolley bus poles on Lakeshore Blvd at Yonge/Jarvis. The 6 Bay trolley bus route ceased in January 1992!
One solution would be for the TTC to give others written notice of pole removal 6 months before they remove them. If the wires are not removed by then the TTC will do it and charge the other utility. Wishful thinking? Probably.

 

[pman]

It's not a waste of money to continually pull up fresh paved roads and repave them?

My street had major gas and water work done 2009-2010, then the road was completely repaved in 2010. The city is now ripping it up - according to one of the City workers who was marking the pavement, Toronto Water screwed up some of the installation and they have to redo it. Judging by the state of Toronto's roads and sidewalks, and the comments here, I gather this is standard operating procedure for the City. I used to live in Montreal and can guarantee that even they aren't this incompetent.

 

[nfitz]

My street had major gas and water work done 2009-2010, then the road was completely repaved in 2010. The city is now ripping it up - according to one of the City workers who was marking the pavement, Toronto Water screwed up some of the installation and they have to redo it. Judging by the state of Toronto's roads and sidewalks, and the comments here, I gather this is standard operating procedure for the City. I used to live in Montreal and can guarantee that even they aren't this incompetent.

I never have found Montreal as quick to repave roads and relay sidewalks as Toronto is - with the roads in particular in much worse shape.

And contractors in Montreal never make screw-ups? Given how much worse their corruption is in the construction industry, I find that hard to believe. There have been a number of overpasses and highway interchanges in Montreal that have collapsed or closed for emergency repairs due to poor construction - I can't recall the last time that happened in Toronto.

 

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I never have found Montreal as quick to repave roads and relay sidewalks as Toronto is - with the roads in particular in much worse shape.

I agree, I lived in Montreal for 30+ years and the state of (and repair of) roads and sidewalks was ghastly. Things are certainly not perfect here but the average sidewalk is in FAR better condition in Toronto and here we even still do the little "enhancements" (like the brick bands) that add a touch of "class".

 

[Thanos]

My street had major gas and water work done 2009-2010, then the road was completely repaved in 2010. The city is now ripping it up - according to one of the City workers who was marking the pavement, Toronto Water screwed up some of the installation and they have to redo it. Judging by the state of Toronto's roads and sidewalks, and the comments here, I gather this is standard operating procedure for the City. I used to live in Montreal and can guarantee that even they aren't this incompetent.

You either didn't live in Montreal far too long or lived in Westmount.
Montreal has a terrible record when it comes to road repair. Take a stroll on Ste-Catherine and you can see the old rail tracks that were buried when they removed the street cars which was a few decades ago. And the same was for Park Ave until they rebuild that street. Which also took 2 years to accomplish and was a disaster. Then there's also the lower Mcgill section and the Peel sewers that keep on bursting year after year.
I saw the same uncoordinated city repairs during my internship in Orlando. However, it was mainly city owned buildings as the roads and sidewalks there are incredible.

 

[Thanos]

There have been a number of overpasses and highway interchanges in Toronto that have collapsed or closed for emergency repairs due to poor construction - I can't recall the last time that happened in Toronto.

I think you mean there have been a number of overpasses that have collapsed in Montreal. While this is true, it's been a problem in the whole province of Quebec. There have been collapses in Laval, Trois-Rivieres, and others.

 

[nfitz]

I think you mean there have been a number of overpasses that have collapsed in Montreal. While this is true, it's been a problem in the whole province of Quebec. There have been collapses in Laval, Trois-Rivieres, and others.

Oops ... hadn't had my coffee yet ... will fix. The best example at the moment is the Turcot interchange in Montreal ... while there's been no collapse, they've stopped cars driving over parts of it because they are afraid it would collapse. With the Champlain Bridge and Mercier Bridge also undergoing emergency repairs. The story is weekly, if not daily.

 

[Jonny5]

Coordination is clearly needed but it is obviously not as easy as one might hope, or expect. A good case study is the work the TTC is doing to replace most of the streetcar overhead in preparation for the new streetcars. They have been installing new (replacement) poles along many streeetcar lines, unfortunately they seem to replace poles in a rather random way and will replace 3 of 5 old poles in a block and then, months later, come and do the other 2. Once the new poles are in place they generally move over their own support wires quite quickly.
As most TTC poles are also used by Hydro for streetlights (and some by Transportaton for traffic lights and a few by Bell or Rogers) it is then necessary for Hydro or Transportation or ?? to move all their wires over to the new poles. This can take years and I suspect it is because TTC has not given these other groups advance notice of their plans and this wire/streetlight moving is not on THEIR list of priorities. Once all wires are removed from a pole the TTC adds that pole to their list of 'poles to be removed' but this is a long list and it was just this summer that they finally removed all, except one, of the trolley bus poles on Lakeshore Blvd at Yonge/Jarvis.

I have been watching them work through the east end of Downtown. I have noticed however that all traffic signals and signs are being removed from TTC and hydro poles and they are having their own separate poles installed. Yes, even more poles. Some corners along Parliament have more than 12 poles, four on each corner, some used, some not.

 

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Clearly having one's own pole is better as that means you don't have to talk to anyone if you want to move it or replace it.

 

[Jonny5]

I checked on my way home and at the intersection of Parliament and Queen there are now 23 poles at or within five metres of the intersection. About 6 on each corner.

This has to be a record.

 

[junctionist]

I have been watching them work through the east end of Downtown. I have noticed however that all traffic signals and signs are being removed from TTC and hydro poles and they are having their own separate poles installed. Yes, even more poles. Some corners along Parliament have more than 12 poles, four on each corner, some used, some not.

Yeah, I've noticed that traffic signals are getting their own poles at some intersections. It's quite unfortunate that the city is making its streets even more cluttered rather than decluttered and cleaner.

 

[pman]

You either didn't live in Montreal far too long or lived in Westmount.
Montreal has a terrible record when it comes to road repair. Take a stroll on Ste-Catherine and you can see the old rail tracks that were buried when they removed the street cars which was a few decades ago. And the same was for Park Ave until they rebuild that street. Which also took 2 years to accomplish and was a disaster. Then there's also the lower Mcgill section and the Peel sewers that keep on bursting year after year.
I saw the same uncoordinated city repairs during my internship in Orlando. However, it was mainly city owned buildings as the roads and sidewalks there are incredible.

Outremont (ma chere...). I agree the highway interchanges like Echangeur Turcotte are worse than anything in Toronto. On the other hand, Montreal has done a vastly better job than Toronto with sidewalks and pavements on major streets like Sherbrooke west of the Main, McGill College, Square Victoria and the entire Quartier International. In my old neighbourhood, secondary streets like Davaar and Bernard were properly paved with nice sidewalks, mature trees and buried hydro wires, and his was the norm. I once ventured into le Ptit Patrie by mistake and as far as I could tell they had the same level public realm that we had.

 

[Thanos]

Outremont (ma chere...). I agree the highway interchanges like Echangeur Turcotte are worse than anything in Toronto. On the other hand, Montreal has done a vastly better job than Toronto with sidewalks and pavements on major streets like Sherbrooke west of the Main, McGill College, Square Victoria and the entire Quartier International. In my old neighbourhood, secondary streets like Davaar and Bernard were properly paved with nice sidewalks, mature trees and buried hydro wires, and his was the norm. I once ventured into le Ptit Patrie by mistake and as far as I could tell they had the same level public realm that we had.

Didn't Outremont deamalgamate? It's like having Yorkville separate from Toronto. If that were too happen than the streets would be much better maintained with flowers planted.
As for Sherbrooke, i don't think it's as good as Bloor.
Would it not be better if the city at least planted some fake grass (astro turf) to give it a better look. There's just too much concerete downtown (buildings and ugly sidewalks).
Who's willing to take bets on how many decades it will take to redo John St?

 

[nfitz]

Didn't Outremont deamalgamate?

No, it remains a borough of Montreal. It was a separate city until amalgamation in 2000.

I don't see the claim about it being so much better. I haven't been in Outremont for years ... so I just jumped in Google to the corner of Van Horne and Outremont - and the road is so cracked it doesn't look like it's been patched in years. Sidewalk looks ancient and uneven. This is the first, and only, view I've looked at. But it is generally what I'm familiar with in Montreal.

 

[pman]

No, it remains a borough of Montreal. It was a separate city until amalgamation in 2000.

I don't see the claim about it being so much better. I haven't been in Outremont for years ... so I just jumped in Google to the corner of Van Horne and Outremont - and the road is so cracked it doesn't look like it's been patched in years. Sidewalk looks ancient and uneven. This is the first, and only, view I've looked at. But it is generally what I'm familiar with in Montreal.

I was surprised by your response because I lived in the building at the southwest corner of Van Horne and Davaar for 18 months, so I went to Google streetview to see if my memory was faulty. The image shows sidewalks in all directions without any utility cuts and a road surface considerably better than the norm in Toronto.