Cities scramble to qualify for infrastructure funding

[kEiThZ]

Sure, but a good chunk of the Ottawa projects (about a third) are directly transit related. And close to another third are roads and bridges that will facilitate better transit. Not much of the spending is going into rural Ottawa at all. Have a look at the list:

http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/seasonal_info/infrastructure/index_en.html

They also pumped in a lot of money into bike paths, community centres, public libraries, streetscaping, and integrated road/water/sewer projects that are sure to save costs down the road.

Is there any reason why Toronto could not come up with a similar laundry list of projects? Are there no bike paths to build or repair, no TTC bus terminals to spruce up, no community centres or public libraries to renew? I don't buy this argument that the Ottawa example is irrelevant. Have a look at their list of projects before saying that. And construction has already started by the way and they aren't small. The renewal of the upper level of St. Laurent centre would be like re-building the bus depot at Scarborough Town Centre (albeit not as many bus bays, yet not small by any measure and quite as significant to Ottawa).

 

[kEiThZ]

The stimulus money is perfect for building a bridge or repaving a highway in Belleville, Ontario, but not so useful for cities with populations north of half-a-million people in them.

For better or for worse, roads and bridges and highways are often the quickest projects to get going. And keep in mind the goal here is to get started and create employment. If the government piles on billions into construction while the economy is on the upswing, all we'll get is inflation. Isn't that concern the whole reason the Opposition is saying that the 30% spent in the last few months is not good enough? You can't have it both ways. You can't call for economic stimulus and then have projects that aren't scheduled to spend the money (or the bulk of it in the construction phase) till the end of the recession.

Shouldn't the Federal government at least have consulted with the major municipalities across the country before coming up with these 'rules'?

There aren't too many other cities, other than Toronto, complaining about how the feds are going about it. Most of them built up lists of projects when it became apparent that money was going to be doled out. They had their lists ready and let the feds choose. Toronto was probably the only municipality in the country that had 1 project on its list.

If they were sincerely interested in spending money on infrastructure that will stimulate the economy, that kind of seems like a no-brainer move.

If you are concerned about directing stimulus towards things like transit, you should ask the Opposition about why they are so concerned about getting money spent so quickly. I am willing to bet that this pressure is certainly impacting the projects the government selects for funding. Even if they would have been more amenable towards picking transit projects before (which they certainly were in the case of Ottawa), after the recent pressure, you can bet that all of it will be going towards projects that can shovel money out the door as quickly as possible (ie roads and highways).

I don't see Miller being flexible here at all. The government is more than willing to address many of his other priorities. It's quite apparent that TCHC alone could spend Toronto's entire portion...and they could probably do it in 2 years. Ditto for parks and rec. Not all of that money has to go towards roads...but perhaps some of it could be used to undertake integrated road/water/sewer projects to facilitate easier LRT corridor construction down the road. There's a lot of ways Miller could have spent the money other than on streetcars, and it would have been reasonable. He chose not to.

 

[waterloowarrior]

Sure, but a good chunk of the Ottawa projects (about a third) are directly transit related. And close to another third are roads and bridges that will facilitate better transit. Not much of the spending is going into rural Ottawa at all. Have a look at the list:

http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/seasonal_info/infrastructure/index_en.html

They also pumped in a lot of money into bike paths, community centres, public libraries, streetscaping, and integrated road/water/sewer projects that are sure to save costs down the road.

Is there any reason why Toronto could not come up with a similar laundry list of projects? Are there no bike paths to build or repair, no TTC bus terminals to spruce up, no community centres or public libraries to renew? I don't buy this argument that the Ottawa example is irrelevant. Have a look at their list of projects before saying that. And construction has already started by the way and they aren't small. The renewal of the upper level of St. Laurent centre would be like re-building the bus depot at Scarborough Town Centre (albeit not as many bus bays, yet not small by any measure and quite as significant to Ottawa).

regarding Ottawa... I did a calculation on SSP for the orignal $376 mil announcement - $105 million for the inner suburbs, $210 for the outer suburbs (outside greenbelt), $15 for the rural areas, $40 for the urban areas, and $5 city wide or unknown...

or 5% for culture, 51% for roads, 17% for integrated road/water/sewer, 27% for transit

 

[kEiThZ]

^ Toronto need not necessarily have had the same mix.

My point being that they could have come up with a list of projects that they needed to get done. They didn't simply because of a decision to play politics. Now that might cost Toronto, some of the amount they do end up getting.

 

[Glen]

Miller Fu*cked up. There were lots of opportunities to allocate this money, Albeit they didn't do his legacy any good.


http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/654431

Never mind expanding Toronto's crowded recreation facilities; it will take $233 million just to fix existing parks, rec centres, swimming pools, arenas, ferries and municipal golf courses, warns city Auditor General Jeff Griffiths. And that massive backlog is set to grow, potentially to $600 million in less than a decade.

Griffiths is correct in urging that this shortfall be addressed, sooner rather than later. But he notes that Toronto's main way of paying for such work – borrowing – may be restricted in the near future. A city guideline caps Toronto's borrowing costs at no more than 15 per cent of what's raised through property tax. That barrier is to be hit in 2011, leaving little room for borrowing to fix Toronto's crumbling parks and recreation infrastructure.

 

[Eug]

Baird has said he'd consider extending the deadline for Toronto to file an application that actually meets the rules.

But yeah, Miller absolutely fscked up.

So... Now that it's likely that Toronto will have to foot the rest of the bill for the streetcars, what other stimulus projects would you guys suggest for the City of Toronto?

 

[kEiThZ]

I'd start with all the stuff that's being deferred by the TTC to pay for the new LRVs.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2009/cc/agendas/2009-06-26-cc37-1.pdf

A lot of that looks like it could be started and finished by the deadline, would generate cost-savings after completion, and was planned for down the road but would have benefits if moved up. After this, I would put money towards reducing the roads, water, sewer infrastructure backlogs and all the parks and rec stuff as has been pointed out above.

 

[officedweller]

Edmonton:

http://www.joconl.com/article/id33938

Transportation Infrastructure

Federal stimulus funds allow Edmonton to expand LRT service

May 29, 2009

STEPHEN DAFOE
correspondent
Edmonton

With work on the city’s South light rail transit (LRT) expansion nearing completion, an injection of $200 million in stimulus dollars is allowing Edmonton to proceed with six priority transit projects sooner than originally planned.

The federal investment of $100 million, part of $12 billion in new infrastructure stimulus funding through Canada’s Economic Action Plan, will be matched in equal measure by the province and city to complete the estimated $300 million worth of capital infrastructure projects.

The ca sh injection will allow Edmonton to move forward with an expansion of the North-east LRT from Clareview to Gorman Town Centre, as well as an upgrade to the signal system along a portion of the north-east line.

The South LRT will also benefit from the stimulus funding with an extension of LRT platforms.

Additionally, two new park and ride areas will be developed at the proposed Eaux Claires Transit Centre and Heritage Valley Neighbourhood, as well as an expansion to the existing Lewis Estates Park and Ride.

Mike Koziol, general manager of capital construction for the City of Edmonton explained that the opportunity for federal stimulus funding called for shovel-ready projects, infrastructure priorities that were on the planning books and could be substantially completed by Mar. 31, 2011.

“We put together a list of projects we felt we could get designed, tendered and constructed by that time and the federal and provincial governments agreed to six of them,” he said.

“They’re in various stages of design or construction. Some will be completed in 2010 and some will be substantially complete, but not 100 per cent by 2011.”

Among the earliest of the projects to be completed may be the extension of platforms along the South LRT extension from the present four-car length to five.

Koziol explained that $3 million has been allocated for each of the five stations along the line, but he anticipates that the two stations currently under construction along 111 Avenue may come under budget.

“It makes it very easy for us to add the extensions now rather than afterwards,” he said, adding that even at the three stations already opened – Health Sciences, and the recently opened McKernan/Belgravia and South Campus Stations – the work will not be extensive.

“It’s a matter of extending the base, so the foundation has to be added and then the platform on top.”

In addition to providing commuters with more room to stand while they wait for trains, the stimulus infusion will also provide additional places for rail travellers to park with the development of two new park and ride areas.

The $20 million Eaux Claires facility will include about 350 parking spaces and a transit centre, while the $25 million Heritage Valley development will see the creation of a 1,200 to 1,400-space parking lot.

Additionally, $3 million is targeted for the 250-parking spot expansion of the Lewis Estates Park & Ride facility in the city’s north-west end, which is currently under construction.

The lion’s share of the $300 million infrastructure will be consumed by the $210 million expansion of the North-East LRT line from Clareview to Gorman Town Centre, the first northern expansion since the Clareview Station was built in 1981.

The expansion concept plan, approved by Edmonton City Council in July of 2008, calls for expanding the line from Clareview Station at 48 Street and 139 Ave. north-east along an existing right-of-way, ending east of 153 Ave in the centre of the East Gorman development, where a new LRT station will be built.

“We are doing land acquisition and design in 2009 and construction in 2010 and 11,” Koziol said.

“If we get design completed on our crash schedule, we would have it tendered by the end of the year.”

Although Koziol is confident that the stimulus projects will substantially help the construction industry, he could not say how many jobs the six projects might create.

“When we tender it, it is never a requirement to say how many jobs it will create,” he said.

“I just know that that’s a substantial number of projects that we wouldn’t have been able to get under way without the help from the provincial and federal government.”

Koziol explained that the $200 million dollar injection over two years increases the annual LRT construction budget by 50 per cent each year and will allow work originally scheduled for 2011-2014 to be substantially completed before it was supposed to start.

 

[sjc]

>>>So... Now that it's likely that Toronto will have to foot the rest of the bill for the streetcars, what other stimulus projects would you guys suggest for the City of Toronto?<<<

How about putting some money towards extending the runway at the Island Airport by a few thousand feet?

 

[UD2]

These are all dumb and political.

The stimilus money should be for something that the city really need and don't have the money to pay for.

That's it. There are the rules.

Can you prove you need it?
Yes

Do the need it now?
Yes

Are your plans in place?
Yes

Do you have the money?
No

Is it infrastructure?
Yes

Will it benefit you?
Yes

Will it benefit the region
Yes


So what's not working?


oh wait... right... you're not voting for me in the election


crap...

 

[kEiThZ]

^ The timeframe for spending should matter. It's not stimulus if the spending occurs years after the recession. Remember the primary purpose of these funds is to stimulate the economy. The Opposition has also demanded that the money be spent quickly. Under the Liberal and NDP conditions the streetcars would not have qualified either.

 

[Whoaccio]

What's 'dumb and political' is having the largest municipal government, with god knows how many PhDs on the payroll, somehow manage to screw up reading an RFP that just about every podunk hick town did just fine with. City Hall either didn't read the bill under which stimulus was made available, which very clearly listed criteria for being awarded stimulus, in which case we really are dumb. Or, more likely, City Hall wanted to play politics and ignore Parliament. Its got nothing to do with voting patterns. As it is Toronto is getting billions from the feds for long term infrastructure funding (Spadina extension, TC, GO expansion, gas taxes) while areas just as CPC-phobic have qualified just fine, which probably has something to do with them reading the documents as opposed to trying the pressure Parliament.

I didn't even get how stupid this was at first. Its so well known just how big of a backlog of deferred maintenance the City has, 90% of which would have qualified for stimulus. Out of date TCHC building stock, backlog of park maintenance, hydro maintenance, road maintenance, sewage maintenance and so forth, clearly exceeding the City's per capita share of the stimulus. Instead we get some idiots trying to play chicken with the national government when they are so clearly in violation of the bipartisan rules. It was flagrant and idiotic.

 

[kEiThZ]

Folks seem to have a hard time understanding the purpose of stimulus. It's supposed to provide immediate economic relief...namely by employing construction workers who might be sitting at home, otherwise. During recessions their work can be bought for cheap. Spending on infrastructure during boom times leads to inflation as the government competes with the private sector for construction labour leading to higher costs for all. The government is absolutely correct to insist that the stimulus be spent by March 2011. And the Opposition is damn right to hold their feet to the fire on that. We will be out of the recession by then and additional expenditures at that point will be inflationary.

 

[EnviroTO]

The problem is that before the recession and the stimulus program the federal government was spending money on projects. The streetcar replacement project with its requirement for federal financing was approved by city council before the stimulus program and its rules were made public. The city had hoped to get money from the normal funding channels that existed prior to the stimulus program. Since then it has been made clear that non-stimulus funding has dried up so the city placed the streetcar purchase on the stimulus request because there was no where else to put it. Stimulus is only truly a stimulus if there is new money on top of the baseline amount.

Lets say the city puts off buying these streetcars two years so it can move up projects that qualify for stimulus knowing full well that in two years time after the stimulus program is over that there will still be some sort of program the federal government is using to fund projects. You would me moving $1.2 billion of LRT spending from the city, province, and federal government to 2011, and moving infrastructure spending in the amount of $1 billion from 2012 to 2009. How is that stimulus?

 

[kEiThZ]

From the 'New Streetcars' Thread:

Well, yeah, if you find the matching $600-million. Where's that going to come from? The provincial portion went into the streetcars.

I think the province will kick in the 300 million for stimulus as well. After all the streetcar money is not going towards stimulating the economy right now. And they'll certainly do it if that means that federal funds are going to be leveraged.

^
I think he meant to use the Federal stimulus funds that were originally meant to fund the new trams. So, instead of deferring said maintenance, apply for the displaced funding under the stimulus program. The one issue I can see for this was that most of these projects were intended for 2012-2018, thereby disqualifying them from the short term component of the stimulus.

I don't think it disqualifies the projects. The whole point of the stimulus funding is to encourage municipalities to move up projects in the pipeline so as to create employment now while construction workers are sitting around. If the TTC already has a lot of this work planned, they should have some idea about cost, how long it takes, complexity, etc. At least some of those projects should be eligible to be moved up. They could use stimulus funds to tackle these projects now. The funds would then be freed up down the road for the streetcars.

I see this as a case of funding musical chairs. It might cost Toronto a tad more (and in the grand scheme of things 417 million over the next 8-10 years is not that big a deal) but it will leverage a significant amount of money from senior levels of government. And the price of construction right now will be a lot lower than undertaking many of these projects in 2012-2018.