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CiRCA

yin_yang said:
hate to say it, but somebody who presents themselves as flamboyantly gay should be prepared for confrontations...isolated incident. some people really suck, nothing can be done about it.
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What a ridiculous statement. Would you say the same thing about someone who presents themself as a person of colour, or as an Asian, or as a Muslim, or as a woman?
 
Well, if the woman was, er, "flamboyantly sexy", i.e. dressed (or undressed) in such a way that, to use the unfortunate phrase, "she had it coming".

Just like there's a difference between "gay" and "flamboyantly gay". Sure, you can behave in such a way, but, to quote the ped-walkway sign at Humber Loop, as long as you accept all risks.
 
Well, I wouldn't make a sensationalistic Herouxville issue out of it, it's just being banal and matter-of-fact. You're more likely to get gay-bashed if you come off as Jack McFarland than if you come off as Will Truman. Duh. And you're more likely to get ogled/groped/assaulted by creeps and weirdos if you look like a Playmate than if you look like a librarian (though these days, who knows, anything goes). And you're more likely to get robbed/mugged if you look/behave like a clueless tourist or outsider.

And just as matter-of-factly, it implicates the other side without making a big deal about it: creeps is creeps. But the message is universal: relative to whatever personal traits you have or choose to highlight/display at a particular moment, be defensive, and be aware. Otherwise by being la-di-da, you're offering yourself as a sitting duck...
 
Yeah, adma, you may be more likely to get assaulted if you're visibly gay or a woman who dresses provocatively. That doesn't make it okay. You shouldn't have to dress like a stereotypical librarian or hide your sexual orientation to avoid being assaulted, verbally or physically.
 
Of course not. But, again, "as long as you accept all risks". It's like sex without a condom; sure, you can, but there's risks involved. Maybe a risk worth taking, and even with a certain thrill to the risk; but it's a risk all the same.

Maybe a lot of this issue ought to be less about orientation, mannerisms, etc, than just a certain common urban decorum--and decorum can work wonders in safety-proofing. Yet because too much decorum can be oppressive, it's tempting to test the line and "let it all hang out". And I'm glad that it happens. But of course, you're playing with fire, duh. (Don't we all?)
 
There is, of course, always a risk for being abused or assaulted for looking too bookish or boring - flamaboyantly so or otherwise.
 
adma said:
But, again, "as long as you accept all risks". It's like sex without a condom; sure, you can, but there's risks involved. Maybe a risk worth taking, and even with a certain thrill to the risk; but it's a risk all the same.

Maybe a lot of this issue ought to be less about orientation, mannerisms, etc, than just a certain common urban decorum--and decorum can work wonders in safety-proofing. Yet because too much decorum can be oppressive, it's tempting to test the line and "let it all hang out". And I'm glad that it happens. But of course, you're playing with fire, duh. (Don't we all?)
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There's risk involved in being yourself?

I went to school alongside a flaming queen who was bashed all the time. I really don't think he could help himself. Otherwise, why wouldn't he have? I know it was agony for him to be almost friendless.

You're treading on thin ice here. What are the defining characteristics? How do we decide when someone is being too effeminate?

This is a little too close to miketoronto's arguments about how "gays should get morals" - the arguments that gays should behave in a certain way to win the respect of the straight community. No one should have to hide who they are or change who they are in order to gain the assurance that they won't be assaulted, physically, verbally, or otherwise. Whether you mean to or not, you are implying that certain behaviours or appearances legitimize violence against a victim.

I think the diversity of our city breeds tolerance, more so than is seen perhaps anywhere in the world. We need to carry that attitude forward and show zero tolerance for this kind of hatred. Someone who takes homophobia to a physical level should not be ejected from the club, but should be turned over to the police and charged.
 
Hey, obviously. Duh.

But it takes two to tango. And all I'm advancing is--without overdoing the camoflauge--common-sense defensive behaviour on *our* part, adapting to whatever our circumstances. That is, I agree that bashers are creeps who justice ought to deal with; but with a little self-aware sleight-of-hand, we can deflect the danger potential in our turn...
 
Met a charming young twink yesterday evening, on his way to Circa where he's a dancer, who told me that Fridays are indeed very gay - but, when it first opened, people queued for a couple of hours to get in. No thanks!
 
Urban Shocker said:
Met a charming young twink yesterday evening, on his way to Circa where he's a dancer, who told me that Fridays are indeed very gay - but, when it first opened, people queued for a couple of hours to get in. No thanks!
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A couple of hours, *outside*? Out in the open, exposed? Ooo-er. I got this nightmarish image of greasy homophobic galoots from the 905 taking advantage of the opportunity for a little bit of "poofter-tipping"...
 
You queue inside, I believe.

No, I haven't gone yet - I'm several aeons too old to pass myself off as a twenty year old twink dancer and just waltz in. And I ain't gonna line up for that long.
 
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