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Church-Wellesley Village

I have to say as a fellow homo I am dissapointed that many people on this board place such an emphasis on sex and nudity in characterizing the gay community. And I only say this because many people my age struggle accepting their gay because of the vicious stereotypes associated with homosexuality such as flamboyancy and promiscuity. Some people just want to be seen as a "normal" gay. One that cannot be distinguished from a fellow straight man.

I just find it sad that anonymous hookups and public indecency seem to be celebrated. I just hope the general public can comprehend that not all gay people are such blatant stereotypes.

I can personally say, the fear of being lumped into that idea of a gay person really increases the stigma of being homosexual, and thus made it more difficult to come out.
 
Cooool said:
I just find it sad that anonymous hookups and public indecency seem to be celebrated. I just hope the general public can comprehend that not all gay people are such blatant stereotypes.

I can personally say, the fear of being lumped into that idea of a gay person really increases the stigma of being homosexual, and thus made it more difficult to come out.
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I just hope the general public doesn't get the idea that all gay people are as boring and uptight as you.

If you want to live just like a "straight man" then fine. But remember it was the flamboyant out people that initially fought for the acceptance and rights that gays and lesbians enjoy today. It was the visible gays that fought because they had to. They couldn't hide and pass and therefore had nothing to lose. And you should thank them every day that your sexuality isn't an issue where the law is concerned.

Toronto's huge Pride event was in response to bath house raids and police harassment and has done more for the acceptance of gay and lesbian rights and the de-stigmatization of our group than probably anything else in this country.

And do you honestly believe straight men are wired any differently than gay men? Don't you think if they had the opportunity they'd be equally as promiscuous? Have you ever been around a group of straight guys? Football and pussy are about as equally important to them. And if you think public nudity is a gay thing I urge you to visit Key West during Fantasy Fest or New Orleans during Mardi Gras.

If anything, be bothered by the fact that this promiscuity is so often unsafe. That's what irks me. There's no reason that HIV rates should be increasing among young gay men and men in their 40s and 50s who lived through the first wave. It's a disease in the west that should have been or could have been a footnote.
 
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Cooool said:
Some people just want to be seen as a "normal" gay. One that cannot be distinguished from a fellow straight man.
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It's your choice if you wish to be completely invisible. However, some people choose to celebrate their sexuality instead of hiding it, and why should that be so shameful?

Oh, and BTW, if you really want to be someone who "cannot be distinguished from a fellow straight man", you might want to consider dating women. Something you might discover one day is that as far as homophobes are concerned, there is no such thing as a "normal" gay.
 
Bruno Republic said:
It's your choice if you wish to be completely invisible. However, some people choose to celebrate their sexuality instead of hiding it, and why should that be so shameful?

Oh, and BTW, if you really want to be someone who "cannot be distinguished from a fellow straight man", you might want to consider dating women. Something you might discover one day is that as far as homophobes are concerned, there is no such thing as a "normal" gay.
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I was moreso focused on the fact people on here admit sex is a large part of the gay community. I knew I would get responses like this and what I said would be spun around to make me seem ashamed. But I'm not.

I just don't think people should be proud that when the idea of a gay person comes to mind anonymous sex does as well. When I read this forum I see people discussing how the village is great for hook-ups. Lately, on other boards as well I see gay people stating that being homosexual is not about being monogomous and is moreso focused on open relationships. That discourages me and that attutidue is very anti-progressive to gay people who want to get married or adopt children.

But I think this is just the older generation that is more like this, than my generation. The gay people I know are not like this, and hopefully never will be.
 
Coool:

My question is - why do others need to change their behaviour so that you can find acceptance by the heterosexual 'norm'? Just because they don't want to be monogamous, get married and adopt children doesn't mean their wants are any less important, valid and 'moral' than yours. If you find that you can't get acceptance because of how society have a unitary view gay men - the problem is a society that is not being able to get that gay men can have different wants and desires, and not with gay men having different wants and needs.

AoD
 
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Cooool said:
I was moreso focused on the fact people on here admit sex is a large part of the gay community.
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Gay men do not share any common heritage, faith, ethnic background, physique, language, or anything like that. The *only* thing which brings us together is sexual orientation. So of course sex is the most universal theme in the gay community. It's the only thing we have in common.

Well, that and Madonna-worship, but even that isn't universal.


Cooool said:
I knew I would get responses like this and what I said would be spun around to make me seem ashamed. But I'm not.
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Nowhere did I say that you should feel ashamed, but you seem to imply that others should.

Cooool said:
I just don't think people should be proud that when the idea of a gay person comes to mind anonymous sex does as well. When I read this forum I see people discussing how the village is great for hook-ups. Lately, on other boards as well I see gay people stating that being homosexual is not about being monogomous and is moreso focused on open relationships.
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Indeed it shouldn't be the idea of a gay person, since there are plenty of straight people who act this way as well. They just tend not to be as open about it. They don't need to go to a few blocks of the city to try and pick someone up. They have the entire world instead.

Cooool said:
That discourages me and that attutidue is very anti-progressive to gay people who want to get married or adopt children.
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Why should it be anti-progressive? Are there no promiscuous straight people who aren't married or don't have children?


Cooool said:
But I think this is just the older generation that is more like this, than my generation. The gay people I know are not like this, and hopefully never will be.
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Here's the thing: that in-your-face sexuality is what got us our rights in the first place, and allows you the luxury to whine about being gay and misunderstood. If you look back at history, you'll find that the people who wanted to abide by the rules and be all nice and decent got nowhere with the struggle. It wasn't until the drag queens and real freaks who had nothing to loose started demanding their rights that anything began to change. Their fight is what got us to the point where we can have this conversation and not worry about being fired/disowned by family/jailed for being queer.

FWIW, I'm not a drag queen, nor am I particularly promiscuous. But to blame open displays of sexuality for so many of the community's problems is misguided. The "let's all behave nice, keep quiet, and not upset anyone" mentality is a huge step backward, not forward.
 
Bruno Republic said:
Gay men do not share any common heritage, faith, ethnic background, physique, language, or anything like that. The *only* thing which brings us together is sexual orientation. So of course sex is the most universal theme in the gay community. It's the only thing we have in common.

Well, that and Madonna-worship, but even that isn't universal.
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You forgot Kathy Griffin and Babs ;)

If one is effeminate, straight appearing, in drag, in leather, single & sexually active/abstinent, in an open or closed relationship - it's all what makes our community such a varied, interesting and diverse group of people. And let's not forget our women/womyn, intersex, transgendered, transsexual, bisexual & two-spirited community members (I hope I didn't forget any there!).
 
I would post a reply to Cooool, but I think those that have replied already have hit all the right points.

I think it's common for people coming from a homophobic environment to look down on those more openly sexual or flamboyant because they can look down on somebody more "deviant" than themselves. A lot of people have had to fight very hard and sacrifice a lot to win the acceptance that young gays like us take for granted. The least we can do is practice an attitude of tolerance and acceptance among our flock.
 
OttoSchloss said:
But remember it was the flamboyant out people that initially fought for the acceptance and rights that gays and lesbians enjoy today. It was the visible gays that fought because they had to. They couldn't hide and pass and therefore had nothing to lose.
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Bruno Republic said:
If you look back at history, you'll find that the people who wanted to abide by the rules and be all nice and decent got nowhere with the struggle. It wasn't until the drag queens and real freaks who had nothing to loose started demanding their rights that anything began to change.
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I think there's a danger of seeing the drag queens involved in the U.S. Stonewall riots as standard bearers and leaders in our struggle. None of the local, out, gay politicians I knew of in early to mid '70s Toronto fit that description. Mostly, they were nice, polite, university educated types from the chattering classes who didn't particularly stand out from the crowd. With other like minded individuals they set up and expand a political power base, knew Robert's Rules of Order pretty well, lobbied elected politicians for expanded civil liberties for gays and lesbians, and changes to the human rights acts, to employment law, and to descriminatory hiring - and firing - practices, that sort of thing. Some rented warehouse space on Duncan Street and put out a magazine called The Body Politic, with a Gay Archives in the same building, for instance. And there was the Glad Day Bookshop, too. Dedicatedly slutty at times like the rest of the population, yes of course, but you can also think of these founding fathers of openly-gay Toronto as rather old fashioned stand up stand up for Jesus missionaries, with a certain dull, Toronto Presbyterian earnestness as well. Their strength was indeed their visibility - the ability to rally smallish groups of protesters for the occasional march, for instance, or get the rest of us to show up at a public meeting to rally support for a cause such as the reinstatement of John Damien who had been fired for being gay - but few were raven haired crossdressers ... sadly!
 
Remember that this particular judgmental diversion has less to do with the freedom and flamboyance associated with open sexuality, than with hackneyed shallowness. And that goes for both sides of the orientation question...
 
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