Church-Wellesley Village

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Spire:

Who are you to judge what is Prudish?

Well, you certainly had no problems doing so, may I note:

Not to me. Others can, as casaguy said, have at it. But not me. Gross.

I just feel bad for anyone who needs to get off on something seedy like Remingtons.

Don't get me to PM you all the non-Victorian things I've done in my life

Well, I am sure you're liberated enough to tell me all about it without resorting to PM. Not comfortable - well, why shouldn't you, we are hardly prudes, and as adults, we can't discuss sexuality openly without fear of value judgements and other attendant baggage? I thought we're more liberated than that. Funnily enough, doing things and then not talking about in the open, with a pretension for being virtueous is a rather well known aspect of Victorian mores... Now of course, the community is liberated enough to accept that this is a valid facet of individuals, and it is up to them to judge whether it is right for themselves. But conversely, these individuals should understand that others may have a different view, and such views does not exclude them from being a part of the community. At the very least, take the Eww elsewhere.

AoD

 

[SP!RE]

When did I judge? I was giving my own opinion of the situation, while adding that others can do with their minds/bodies/etc. what they want.

And I have no interest in disclosing my sexual behaviour in a public forum. That's what we call a "boundary".

Anyways, carry on. Let's talk about how sad life will be without Remingtons and what a missed piece of the "community" it will be.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Church and Wellesley has become a Museum. I was walking through there the other day and it looked like a retirement community in south Florida. Except there were no older women milling around.
Other than its possible historic value, I can't imagine anyone under 30 would find it appealing.

This statement just isn't true, unless your 20 and consider anyone over 25 an old troll.
There are some mature types who do the Bingo thing during the day at George's Play, who may be found on the patios of The Village Rainbow or Timothy's and so what's wrong with that? By day, it's a neighbourhood with people hustling and bustling to get where they have to go and get things done, like any neighbourhood.
By night it's a whole other matter.

No, by community, I mean the whole Gay Village and all the activities that go on there. It's the only place I can go and meet people I know, walking down the street or having coffee on an outdoor patio. I've gone to West Queen West over a dozen times, and never saw a single person I know or met anybody even remotely interesting. For me, nothing can replace the village. I've had many great nights out on Church St. I can't say that about any other neighbourhood in Toronto. (in regards to socializing and having a laugh)

I guess this is still referred to as the "gay village" by some, but it's really "The Church Wellesley Village". Aside from gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, transsexual, two-spirited (did I miss anyone?) and heterosexual residents & visitors I'd suggest "the gay village" is out.

Torontovibe:
It depends on what type "hook up" you wanted though. I remember my disappointment going there the first time, expecting men dressed to the hilt - only to see what, running shoes? WTF?!
AoD

I've only been in a few times. My first time was such a bizzare experience I cannot even relay it here. Suffice to say, it was anything but boring! Anyway, on another occasion I was dragged to Le Eagle by my boss, stopped at the door and denied entrance because I was wearing sneakers! (circa 2000'ish)

 

[lxmoss]

Well for all those who are upset about losing places like Remington's and potentially Crews; when was the last time you supported these places with your patronage?

I don't really like either places but they are fun once in a while. Perhaps I'm an old troll since I turned 25 a few weeks ago.

 

[androiduk]

From a slightly different viewpoint; As a hetero who has lived here for 20 years and is now raising my children here, the area has changed dramatically in a short time. It's definitely not as naughty and raunchy and energetic as it used to be. I miss Woody's on Isabella (now Rabba) when you couldn't even drive down the street because it was so packed. I miss the 'steps' and the Sunday drag bingo. And I miss the old parades before the heavy duty corporate sponsorships. You used to be able to walk down Church most evenings and be in the middle of what felt like, one giant private party. Now, I find it comparatively tame and not much different from other neighbourhoods in the city. Welcome to the mainstream.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

From a slightly different viewpoint; As a hetero who has lived here for 20 years and is now raising my children here, the area has changed dramatically in a short time. It's definitely not as naughty and raunchy and energetic as it used to be. I miss Woody's on Isabella (now Rabba) when you couldn't even drive down the street because it was so packed. I miss the 'steps' and the Sunday drag bingo. And I miss the old parades before the heavy duty corporate sponsorships. You used to be able to walk down Church most evenings and be in the middle of what felt like, one giant private party. Now, I find it comparatively tame and not much different from other neighbourhoods in the city. Welcome to the mainstream.

It has changed and become a little more mainstream but what I love about this area (I've lived here for several decades myself) is how harmonious the neighbourhood is. There's the crack problem that exists to an extent, but that exists in many high density neighbourhoods and it's certainly not as bad as some others.

I miss the steps, The Second Cup at 3am and the window drag shows at the 501 too, good memories!

By the way, it was Chaps on Isabella, Woody's still survives (and does well) on Church Street.

 

[Torontovibe]

From a slightly different viewpoint; As a hetero who has lived here for 20 years and is now raising my children here, the area has changed dramatically in a short time. It's definitely not as naughty and raunchy and energetic as it used to be. I miss Woody's on Isabella (now Rabba) when you couldn't even drive down the street because it was so packed. I miss the 'steps' and the Sunday drag bingo. And I miss the old parades before the heavy duty corporate sponsorships. You used to be able to walk down Church most evenings and be in the middle of what felt like, one giant private party. Now, I find it comparatively tame and not much different from other neighbourhoods in the city. Welcome to the mainstream.

On good days/nights, when all the patios are packed and the boys/men are all out, Church Street still has that gay, festive vibe. It's more than just a bar area, it's the heart of the gay community. Of course, it's not for everyone and certainly can't represent all queer people. (no gay village could) It's there for the people who enjoy that social aspect of gay life.

I call it "The Gay Village" because "The Church/Wellesley Village" is meaningless to me. It was only created by the BIA to make the neighbourhood a bit more acceptable to the mainstream. If a tourist looked on a tourism map, it would tell them nothing.
Places like Greektown, Chinatown and Little Italy are defined by their character and the residents in the neighbourhood. That should also apply to The Gay Village. The one and ONLY reason that strip has any distinction at all, is because of it's history and the fact that it was developed mainly by the gay community. (Yes, like it or not, mostly gay men. Parliament had more of the lesbian community) The name Church/Wellesly doesn't even sound right. It certainly doesn't roll off the tongue. lol

I also miss The Steps. I had many long, fun filled nights on those steps. Timothy's kind of fills a void but it's not quite the same. It's good to have places to just sit and hang out with friends or meet new ones. That's what I love about Toronto's Gay Village, there is always a popular place somewhere to just sit, hang out and socialize. All the outdoor patios are great too. Toronto's patio scene is one of the best in North America, along with Montreal and New York City. We all should be proud of that.

By torontovibe at 2009-04-07



Not your average Toronto neighbourhood! lol

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Very nice photomontage, torontovibe! FFN from a few years ago?

re: gaybourhood - I wonder if TO is moving towards a more "European" model (as some have noted), whereby gay friendly businesses and institutions becomes more spread out as they gain acceptance of the general public.

AoD

 

[casaguy]

By the way, it was Chaps on Isabella, Woody's still survives (and does well) on Church Street.

Chaps was my Friday and Saturday night hangout when I moved to Toronto. Many, many awesome memories there. (1991-1993)

And I believe Chaps was actually the upstairs bar and Badlands was the downstairs bar at what is now Rabba's on Isabella.

 

[androiduk]

Very nice photomontage, torontovibe! FFN from a few years ago?

re: gaybourhood - I wonder if TO is moving towards a more "European" model (as some have noted), whereby gay friendly businesses and institutions becomes more spread out as they gain acceptance of the general public.

AoD

That seems very natural. When the community was heavily oppressed, it was heavily concentrated and tightly knit in a small safe area. Now that acceptance is increasing, it becomes more fractured and migrates. I'm guessing there are many people who, although they didn't like the oppression, miss the tight community that existed. Definitely, this is the end of an era.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

androiduk:

Yeah, but I am thinking that certain activities (esp. sexually related ones) are probably not going to gain acceptance in most neighbourhoods, however much the rest of the community becomes part of the mainstream. Maybe that's something to capitalize on, wrt to the straights.

AoD

 

[androiduk]

^I don't know about other straights but I don't give the sexual aspect of gay life a lot of thought. Once you start a family and get involved in the day to day of raising kids, sex plays a less prominent role. That scenario is less common for gay guys since not too many of them are raising kids, thus sex, entertaining, clubbing, etc. are high up there on the activity list. When I interact with the gay couples on my street, I mostly think of the following; they're very pleasant to talk too, they dress better than I do, they live in very attractive homes and they just generally seem more civilized than most of the straight people in the neighbourhood.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

androiduk:

What you've said is exactly what I meant - once the community moves into the mainstream, the sex aspect of sexuality becomes secondary - almost to the point of being a public "blind spot". I mean, like it or hate it, sexual orientation is partly about sex - and to neglect as a fundamental aspect of the community is unfortunate.

At a visceral level, are we gay because we can be (not always) civilized? No - it is sexuality defining us as who we are - and it branches out from there.

AoD

 

[Torontovibe]

The main aspect of The Gay Village that seems to be changing is the bar scene. If you look at the cafes, saunas and restaurants, they are all doing very well. I can't think of a single village cafe, restaurant or steam bath (frequented by the gay community) that has closed in the last few years, only bars. Most days it's hard to get a seat inside Timothy's and now that summer is coming, the outside area is becoming quite busy too. The outdoor patios along Church Street are frequently packed in summer.

It seems to be only the younger crowd that avoids the Village. My friends who are over 30, would never think of going to Circa or a Entertainment District club, for a fun night out. The problem is most middle-aged gay guys are not as much into the bar scene. The over 30 gay crowd is much more likely to go for coffee or to a restaurant, for their evenings out, maybe followed by a few hours at Steamworks. (Although The Black Eagle still gets a good weekend crowd) The gay scene has just shifted away from bars and over to coffee shops and restaurants. Rest assured, The Gay Village ain't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

 

[deerparker]

We were in the Village last night. First at O'Grady's, where people were sitting on a very windy patio because the inside was full. We went to Tallulah's after, but the line-up of 20-somethings went down the street, so we went to Straight (my favourite), where the crowd was a mix of 20 to 40+. All three floors were packed, and there was a line-up when we left. Of course we, and lots of others, go out in other neighbourhoods - a sign of an evolving and gay friendly city - but the Village certainly hasn't fallen off our radar, nor does it appear to have become a retirement community, at least not on weekend nights. On a side note, I noticed there is an LCBO application poster in the window at Crews.