Church-Wellesley Village

[cdr108]

The owner of George's Play, George Pratt, has been trying to move his clientele over to Flash since he got the notice a few months ago, I thought this was old news.
The fellow who lives upstairs finally sold the property, he was the last holdout on this block that the developer who owns the other properties has been waiting for. When I moved into the Alexus condo in '98 or '99 I heard that this whole area was being developed, but the owner of that building was not selling. This is what my real estate friend told me and the gossip around the building, for what it's worth.
Now it's almost impossible to imagine the huge loss to nightlife and the vibrancy of the street that losing all these businesses will have, not to mention a block with plenty of charactor eliminated from the Village, save for the parking lot.

but aren't flash and play completely different styles of venues ?!?!?

if play's building was the last hold out, does that mean all the businesses along church up to Maitland will be closing their doors soon? i would think some of them have long-term leases, unless a developer wants to buy them out ???

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

but aren't flash and play completely different styles of venues ?!?!?

if play's building was the last hold out, does that mean all the businesses along church up to Maitland will be closing their doors soon? i would think some of them have long-term leases, unless a developer wants to buy them out ???

Perhaps neighbourhood bar by day, strip club by night? I dunno.
I've heard that one developer owns all the properties from 506 Church (the building north of Play) up to Maitland (O'Grady's), it could be rumour but I've heard that for years now. I hope it's not true but I have a bad feeling that it probably is.

 

[mgl]

Here's the article in xtra that explains all - George's Play shuts its doors: http://www.xtra.ca/public/Toronto/Georgeaposs_Play_shuts_its_doors-12036.aspx

 

[Jonny5]

So $10k monthly rent. Anyone want to guess on the psf rate or have comparisons to similar size bars in other neighbourhoods?

 

[DTowner]

'The landlords, who live directly above the bar, weren’t pleased with the amount of noise coming from Play and had wanted Pratt to close the bar nightly at midnight as part of the new lease. Pratt says that would have been unworkable for the popular bar, which had been on Church St for 10 years.

“They wanted no noise after midnight. That’s pretty hard in a gay bar,” Pratt says.'

That's hard in ANY bar. Oy vey. That's the problem with having residence and retail so close together — and with people who live downtown who clearly need to move mid-town or to the suburbs.

 

[Dan416]

I don't go to the village that often, but this saddens me and frustrates me. I think it's completely unreasonable to expect a gay bar on CHURCH STREET to close by midnight, on any day!

It's bad enough we don't even have a proper club in Toronto (something like Unity or Sky in Montreal or XL in NYC). Fly will probably be gone with that new condo development, Buddies isn't really a club, Woody's and Crews are converted houses.

I mean I like the "village" feel of the Village, but it just kinda sucks the lack of options, and the options we do have are decreasing.

 

[Peepers]

I don't go to the village that often, but this saddens me and frustrates me. I think it's completely unreasonable to expect a gay bar on CHURCH STREET to close by midnight, on any day!

.

I suspect that the real reason why the lease was not renewed has nothing to do about noise, after all the owner of the building lived above this Bar for the last 10 years, why is noise an issue all of the sudden? If my information is correct - the owner is an elderly man in his late 80's or 90's and I suspect as noted in postings above that he sold the building to a developer. He is probably getting ready to move to a retirement home.

 

[cdr108]

I suspect that the real reason why the lease was not renewed has nothing to do about noise, after all the owner of the building lived above this Bar for the last 10 years, why is noise an issue all of the sudden? If my information is correct - the owner is an elderly man in his late 80's or 90's and I suspect as noted in postings above that he sold the building to a developer. He is probably getting ready to move to a retirement home.

the article does say there have been issues with the landlord and Pratt for at least 3 years.

Pratt had been trying to get the landlords to soundproof the bar so the noise wouldn’t be an issue, but the landlords wouldn’t agree. ....

“I’ve been going through this for three years now. The future was obviously not with them,” he says. “I was right: here we are at the end of May and we weren’t able to get a lease.”

neither the owner or tenant wants to put the money into fixing the issue.
obviously, the lease was long-term (ie. 10 years) so the landlord doesn't have any recourse during the interim but just not renew if their concerns aren't addressed.
if the owner is as old as you say, maybe they want their peace and quite the older he gets ... who knows, things change from years ago. you may be right that the owner has sold, but one can't assume that's the only motivation.

btw, i've never been to Play but the space looks like it's around 2500 sq ft plus basement.
the article didn't clairify if $10,000/m was gross or net, but either way, that's a good rental rate for prime dt toronto.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

If the "tenant" identified is indeed the owner, he's lived upstairs for decades. The name of the restaurant that used to be there prior to George's Play escapes me, but the owner of the restaurant was an wonderful older Italian man who could cook like nobody's business. I think his name was Camillo, he was there for well over 25 years but finally closed shop because he just couldn't hold on any longer after Maple Leaf Gardens closed, though he tried for several years. It's much, much larger than 2500 sq. feet, more in the neighbourhood of around 6,000-8,000 sq. feet, it's a very deep property.

As for not having a proper dance club in Toronto we do have The Barn (ya, I know!), El Convento Rico and Fly. When Fly comes down the deal is that the developer must help locate a comparable space in the neighbourhood to replace the Fly dance club. I'm kind of hoping (dreaming I guess) that the former Komrads site could be resurrected into a dance club (that's the warehouse on the S/E corner of Isabella & Yonge which is currently a gym) as there are huge spaces on the 2nd & 3rd floors and no residential nearby for condo freaks to complain about.

 

[to_l]

It appears the new crepe place next to Churchmouse has closed.

 

[cdr108]

If the "tenant" identified is indeed the owner, he's lived upstairs for decades. The name of the restaurant that used to be there prior to George's Play escapes me, but the owner of the restaurant was an wonderful older Italian man who could cook like nobody's business. I think his name was Camillo, he was there for well over 25 years but finally closed shop because he just couldn't hold on any longer after Maple Leaf Gardens closed, though he tried for several years. It's much, much larger than 2500 sq. feet, more in the neighbourhood of around 6,000-8,000 sq. feet, it's a very deep property.

As for not having a proper dance club in Toronto we do have The Barn (ya, I know!), El Convento Rico and Fly. When Fly comes down the deal is that the developer must help locate a comparable space in the neighbourhood to replace the Fly dance club. I'm kind of hoping (dreaming I guess) that the former Komrads site could be resurrected into a dance club (that's the warehouse on the S/E corner of Isabella & Yonge which is currently a gym) as there are huge spaces on the 2nd & 3rd floors and no residential nearby for condo freaks to complain about.

sorry, to clairify, when i say 'tenant' i mean George Pratt, the owner of Play, not the landlord who lives upstairs.

if what you say is correct and that the space is 6,000-8,000 sq ft, then George had an AMAZING deal at $10,000/m; and George should have sound proofed the bar with the amount of money he was saving vs. comparable rents on the street.

this issue sounds more like cheap and greedy business owner than the typical 'greedy landlord' most want to jump upon and blame.

btw, is the Barn still open? i went on a weekend about a month ago and the doors were locked !

 

[TwoDogs_39]

I'm a bit late to jump onto this bandwagon, but I too was saddened to see Play close. That place had the best drag queens in town! It was always good fun.

Flash is a strip club though, so it seems very different from the drag scene. I'm not quite sure how they're going to meld the two.

 

[OttoSchloss]

XL has been closed for years. And the Roxy went away not long after. New York is hurting for big gay clubs too for a city of its size. Except for a smattering of Latino venues.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

There's a "For Lease" sign up now at former George's Play and it indicates 4500 sq. ft. of rentable space, so we were close. I think that this is encouraging news, it seems that the owner hasn't sold the property which will "hopefully" delay this block from being developed any time soon.

 

[cdr108]

There's a "For Lease" sign up now at former George's Play and it indicates 4500 sq. ft. of rentable space, so we were close. I think that this is encouraging news, it seems that the owner hasn't sold the property which will "hopefully" delay this block from being developed any time soon.

i actually was in the area today and spoke with the owner.

the 4,500 sq ft is comprised of the main floor (2,500 sq ft) and basement level (2,000 sq ft) and he's asking $10,000 net/m + TMI, which is ~$48 psf/year net + TMI.

it's less than what's being asked for the old Reinhart (sp?) space at $60 psf/year net but IMO $60 psf/year net is too much in the area. like others mentioned, a landlord can ask it but the space could remain vacant for months and then could end up with a tenant that's unable to pay the rent and make ends meet.

Oishii Japanese Restaurant at 556 Church St is selling it's business and the rent is listed as $6,200/m + TMI for 2,000 sq ft.

the owner hasn't sold the property; however, when i was talking to him, someone approached him asking if he was looking to sell because he had a buyer looking. who knows if a deal will be made in the months to come !?!?!