Canadian Highway Fantasy Thread

[gweed123]

6 would capture both KW and Guelph traffic, while 8 would only grab KW.

True, but at the same time if you take the K-W traffic off of 6, it's levels become much more manageable for the type of cross-section that it is. Also, with a Highway 408 you could build it on an entirely new ROW (much like the 407 extension), minimizing impact to the existing route.

404 around Lake Simcoe is rather unnecessary - traffic levels are too low. The connection to 48 probably doesn't even need to be 4 lanes, though it may as well be. The only reason I am proposing that is because the 48-404 connection is utter crap right now and needs to be improved.

12 does need to get widened to 4 lanes from 48 to 169 though, but that doesn't really need to be a freeway. And I say that as a regular user, I drove it just on Saturday.

Also, 11 is getting quite busy, especially south of Orillia. It's going to need a 6 lane freeway upgrade south of Orillia in the next few years anyway, no point bypassing it on the other side of the lake.

Part of my thinking was that if you directed the Highway 11 traffic around the other side of the lake, it would offer a relief valve for the 400. Right now, both 11 and the northern section of the 400 dump onto that stretch from Barrie southward. Any accident on that section cripples both highways. With respect to volumes, I think it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. The volumes aren't that high because people bound for Highway 11 are using the 400, which is much faster than a two-lane highway.

Also, I was under the impression that upgrading the RIRO section of 11 would be a huge pain, and not really feasible in some sections. I could be mistaken though, and if the entire thing can be upgraded and that allows 11 to be re-signed as 411, by all means do it.

Is this thread kind of getting mixed up with this thread? Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

Not really. That thread is more for 'actual' highway discussion (ex: "work started on this overpass last weekend"). This thread is more for fantasy proposals like the one you see above.[/QUOTE]

 

[innsertnamehere]

MTO has plans to upgrade the entire RIRO section. They haven't updated the EA for the southern portion in a while I believe, but they updated the EA for north of Orillia a few years ago.

 

[Leo_Chan]

All in favour for a dedicated Canadian Freeway Expansion Thread say I.

I recommend being a good thread starter (even though this thread was split and not created by you) by adding some detailed information to this first message.

 

[gweed123]

MTO has plans to upgrade the entire RIRO section. They haven't updated the EA for the southern portion in a while I believe, but they updated the EA for north of Orillia a few years ago.

That's good news. Those sections are pretty dangerous. There's only that stretch of 11 and the 35/115 in that configuration, right?

I recommend being a good thread starter (even though this thread was split and not created by you) by adding some detailed information to this first message.

Yes I tried that, but because I moved thread posts that were written before this thread was created, the "initial" post I had wound up being somewhere on Page 2.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Yes I tried that, but because I moved thread posts that were written before this thread was created, the "initial" post I had wound up being somewhere on Page 2.

Are you saying that a moderator can’t change the order of posts in a thread?

 

[innsertnamehere]

Yes, those are the only RIROs. MTO has plans to upgrade 35 up to Lindsay to a RIRO if traffic levels ever warrant it as well.

 

[gweed123]

Are you saying that a moderator can’t change the order of posts in a thread?

I'm not aware of a way, but I'm relatively new to the mod stuff.

Yes, those are the only RIROs. MTO has plans to upgrade 35 up to Lindsay to a RIRO if traffic levels ever warrant it as well.

I figured MTO was moving away from RIROs and more towards the 5-lane cross section with the dual left turn lane. They recently (~5 years ago IIRC) rebuilt Highway 7 between 115 and 28 in that configuration, as is Highway 6 in Flamborough. I figured RIRO was some sort of "failed experiment" that the MTO wasn't going to repeat.

 

[innsertnamehere]

It may just be a case of a dated EA from the the 1990's that hasn't been updated - but the last time MTO looked at 35 they wanted a RIRO. I think that was 15-20 years ago now though.

I also really don't like those 5 lane configurations. My understanding is that MTO has been doing those more simply since they are far cheaper and lower impact.

 

[Kitsune]

11 Should be rerouted along the other side of Lake Simcoe and hooked up with 404. That will take a ton of pressure off of 400, and then you can rename 11 to 404 upto North Bay.

 

[ShonTron]

11 Should be rerouted along the other side of Lake Simcoe and hooked up with 404. That will take a ton of pressure off of 400, and then you can rename 11 to 404 upto North Bay.

No, that really doesn't make that much sense. I would rather see upgrades to Highway 12 (which is a brutal road to drive on) and an extension of Highway 412 to meet Highway 12 north of Brooklin. Highway 12 needs more passing lanes and a full four-lane section between old Highway 48 north of Beaverton (downloaded highway to Kirkfield/Coboconk) and existing Highway 48 (to Sutton/Markham).

Highway 12 should also be upgraded between Highway 11 in Orillia and east of Rama Road. Parts of it are four-laned, but not the old Highway 12 bypass in Orillia itself.

 

[MisterF]

Extended

There's something to be said for a continuous freeway parallel to the 401 from Sarnia to Ottawa. It would build on several smaller projects and be much more useful (and affordable) than a freeway across the vast emptiness of northern Ontario. The section north of Peterborough strikes me as unnecessary though. Better for the route to follow the 407 East and 115 and then go east from Peterborough. That section of highway can take the extra traffic and won't need anything to bypass it for a very long time.

 

[Leo_Chan]

There's something to be said for a continuous freeway parallel to the 401 from Sarnia to Ottawa. It would build on several smaller projects and be much more useful (and affordable) than a freeway across the vast emptiness of northern Ontario. The section north of Peterborough strikes me as unnecessary though. Better for the route to follow the 407 East and 115 and then go east from Peterborough. That section of highway can take the extra traffic and won't need anything to bypass it for a very long time.

A TRUE Toronto bypass.

 

[lenaitch]

I'm not aware of a way, but I'm relatively new to the mod stuff.



I figured MTO was moving away from RIROs and more towards the 5-lane cross section with the dual left turn lane. They recently (~5 years ago IIRC) rebuilt Highway 7 between 115 and 28 in that configuration, as is Highway 6 in Flamborough. I figured RIRO was some sort of "failed experiment" that the MTO wasn't going to repeat.

I don't know MTO policy, but I have to believe non separated 4-laning (i.e. common turn lane or simply a painted median) is likely a way to create added capacity with the dollars available. The potential for head-on traffic conflict is very high. If the directions are separated by a median, then you can have at-grade cross traffic at various points. If they are only separated by a barrier, then sight lines prevent this. Short of a completely new alighnment, RIRO is realistically the only option when widening a rural highway that is to be separated. There are so many intersecting roads and private entrances. Even at that, you can often force people who want to go left to turn right to the first cross-intersection so they can turn around and go back. Otherwise, you have to create a network of connecting service roads, which really doesn't address private driveways.

 

[jamincan]

The last I had heard, Noront are moving ahead with plans for the southern route from from the Ring of Fire through Marten Falls down to Nakina. The Marten Falls leadership is very supportive of the plan. On the other hand, I have my doubts that the route through Webequie will ever be built.

As for KW; a bypass around the northwest part of the city has next to no chance of being built. It's an important recharge zone for groundwater regionally and the region, at least as I perceive it, is very protective of its rural hinterland. Traffic from the northwest part of the region really isn't a huge problem either and there is little land in that area remaining available for development.

 

[idc24]

There's something to be said for a continuous freeway parallel to the 401 from Sarnia to Ottawa. It would build on several smaller projects and be much more useful (and affordable) than a freeway across the vast emptiness of northern Ontario. The section north of Peterborough strikes me as unnecessary though. Better for the route to follow the 407 East and 115 and then go east from Peterborough. That section of highway can take the extra traffic and won't need anything to bypass it for a very long time.

I agree with you. A freeway from Sarnia to Ottawa is a logical as it would be a complete bypass of the infamous 401... and Toronto.
Trucks travelling for the Michigan border to Ottawa and Quebec would love it...

I also agree that the section north of Peterborough is unnecessary. Highway 115 is a broad rural, four lane controlled access expressway stretching 60 km from where the 407 East will terminate to Peterborough where it turns into Highway 7 East - Ottawa.
Interestingly it is the only MTO expressway to run on a diagonal axis. It is full 400 series highway spec and it's wide grass median could be easily converted into additional lanes.