afransen
Senior Member
One more email oughta do it.
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Canadian Dealers Want To Import Cars Americans Can’t Buy
- Thread starter Admiral Beez
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
I hadn't realized that Hyundai was now exporting so many cars from Alabama to Korea.
ericmacm
Active Member
I have always been a big fan of small and mid-sized pickup trucks, as the full-sized trucks are just too damn big. While I have been very happy to see that a lot of them are now available here in North America (I am a fan of and currently drive a T6 Ford Ranger), I would like to see more of the international ones become available for sale here. I have been envious of the rest of the world for having the VW Amarok available for purchase while we don’t.
just east of the creek
Senior Member
I agree completely. I learned to drive on an ancient Ford F100, which was still fully employed on the farm. And could handle most of the jobs required. Currently, excluding the dually used for towing large loads, a Ford Maverick, a Honda Ridgeline completely handle all the needs.
And a step further. If the plan is to disengage from a dependance on US sourced goods, which is a good idea, then why not open the doors to more EU sourced vehicles. They have a lot of quality vehicles being built for many of the same jobs, and some, such as the Sprinter and the Transit have found homes here as well (Now made in North America). I would think that the safety and emission standards are more than comparable.Set some thresholds - you sell so many vehicles total in Canada, then you need a corresponding level of investment hear - research, design, testing, parts, assembly. You could certainly do the same with the Koreans, who sell a lot in Canada but invest what? And the same for producers like John Deere. Case etc etc They do have operations in Canada beyond the service level, but how much and how does that compare to the $ we spend on equipment (although I think more and more people are looking locally).
afransen
Senior Member
If our American neighbours are set on bring difficult, maybe a 100% tariff on American produced pickup trucks is in order, and a drop in tariff and non-tariff barriers on non-US pickups.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
lenaitch
Senior Member
Part of the reason we (North America) don't see a lot of foreign light duty trucks is a hang over from the Chicken Tax. Without the US opening their market - doubtful - I doubt the size of the Canadian market alone would make it financially worth it for a European manufacturer to re-tool to meet our requirements. It's not just emissions but collision standards, side of drive, etc.
Just to give you a trip down memory lane, this belongs to a buddy (1950 F1):
Towered
Superstar
Beautiful. I just picked up a couple of classics myself...
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Couple of notes:
1. A lot of European cars are not sold here not because of import problems or regulations, but because they won't sell. European brands have shown willingness to import cars to just the Canadian market in the past when they think they will sell well enough - Mercedes did this with the B-Class and A-class cars for years, for example. VW sold different versions of the Golf in Canada longer than the US, like the Golf wagon and City Golf. Canada is the 10th largest automotive market in the world. If something will sell here, automakers will tool for it. Canadians ultimately have very similar buying habits to Americans and simply don't buy small cars.
2. Canada does not have it's own automotive brand because of how integrated the American auto market has been with Canada historically. We did not develop independent brands at the dawn of the automobile age as American auto manufacturers grew across both sides of the border. Companies like Ford and GM opened some of their first plants outside of Michigan in Ontario, not other parts of the US. Ontario was historically the second-largest auto manufacturing jurisdiction on the continent. Historically Canada actually produced far more cars than it purchased. Even today, we build about the same number of cars as we buy, with about 1.5 million cars built in 2023 vs. 1.7 million cars purchased.
3. To this day a lot of the best selling vehicles on the continent are made in Canada. Of the top ten selling vehicles in the US, numbers 2 (silverado), 3 (Rav4), 4 (CRV), and 10 (Civic) are produced in Canada. Numbers 3, 4, and 10 see the *majority* of production occur in Canada. Toyota runs two separate plants that basically do nothing but pump out Rav4s in massive quantities.
4. Contrary to Trump's overtures, auto manufacturing in Canada is not going anywhere. Major manufacturers have simply invested too much here, and continue to invest with VW building in St Thomas, Honda expanding in Alliston, and now Toyota apparently planning to build in New Hamburg. Trump's auto tariffs on Canada and his bluster about it is his same old negotiating tactic - we will likely make a "deal" of some sort in the very near term which eliminates the threat of auto tariffs. Even as it stands today, autos are exempt from tariffs if qualified under the USMCA, which is most autos. Also, Trump does not represent institutional inertia in the US federal government. He holds a tight grip on the republican party right now, but underlying policy intents of the party don't actually generally align with Trump's tariff policies. There is no sign American tariff aggression is here to stay beyond 2028.
1. A lot of European cars are not sold here not because of import problems or regulations, but because they won't sell. European brands have shown willingness to import cars to just the Canadian market in the past when they think they will sell well enough - Mercedes did this with the B-Class and A-class cars for years, for example. VW sold different versions of the Golf in Canada longer than the US, like the Golf wagon and City Golf. Canada is the 10th largest automotive market in the world. If something will sell here, automakers will tool for it. Canadians ultimately have very similar buying habits to Americans and simply don't buy small cars.
2. Canada does not have it's own automotive brand because of how integrated the American auto market has been with Canada historically. We did not develop independent brands at the dawn of the automobile age as American auto manufacturers grew across both sides of the border. Companies like Ford and GM opened some of their first plants outside of Michigan in Ontario, not other parts of the US. Ontario was historically the second-largest auto manufacturing jurisdiction on the continent. Historically Canada actually produced far more cars than it purchased. Even today, we build about the same number of cars as we buy, with about 1.5 million cars built in 2023 vs. 1.7 million cars purchased.
3. To this day a lot of the best selling vehicles on the continent are made in Canada. Of the top ten selling vehicles in the US, numbers 2 (silverado), 3 (Rav4), 4 (CRV), and 10 (Civic) are produced in Canada. Numbers 3, 4, and 10 see the *majority* of production occur in Canada. Toyota runs two separate plants that basically do nothing but pump out Rav4s in massive quantities.
4. Contrary to Trump's overtures, auto manufacturing in Canada is not going anywhere. Major manufacturers have simply invested too much here, and continue to invest with VW building in St Thomas, Honda expanding in Alliston, and now Toyota apparently planning to build in New Hamburg. Trump's auto tariffs on Canada and his bluster about it is his same old negotiating tactic - we will likely make a "deal" of some sort in the very near term which eliminates the threat of auto tariffs. Even as it stands today, autos are exempt from tariffs if qualified under the USMCA, which is most autos. Also, Trump does not represent institutional inertia in the US federal government. He holds a tight grip on the republican party right now, but underlying policy intents of the party don't actually generally align with Trump's tariff policies. There is no sign American tariff aggression is here to stay beyond 2028.
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lenaitch
Senior Member
Tastes change. Back in the '50s and '60s, brands from the UK (while they still existed) and EU, like Renault, were available here. It's a lot of money to set up a dealer network, marketting, etc. and establish a presence. Suzuki still manufacturers vehicles although they left the NA market in 2014.
I still maintain that meeting NA safety and emission standards, including any retooling costs and the cost of the certification process itself, is a barrier to foreign manufacturers that they aren't willing to overcome unless they project the sales to make it cost effective. Tata is apparently doing that with one of its mcro models and no doubt the Chinese manufacturers will be weighing their options. CS Moto (bikes, ATVs, etc.) has already moved into the market.
Well, we did, but they either couldn't compete in the market or were subsumed by other companies. The early days of auto production was like the early days of motorized snow machines; everybody was doing it, and the market went through a natural shake-out. Canadian brands like Tudhope and Grey-Dort existed in the early days. McLaughlin (Buick) was absorbed in the General Motors.
ericmacm
Active Member
You are right, US automotive companies took a foothold in Ontario concurrently with setting up factories in Michigan (in no small part due to cheap electricity from Niagara Falls). However, Canada did actually start off early on with many independent auto manufacturers and brands, but all of them got consumed by the original Big Four (Chevrolet, Chrysler, Ford, and Studebaker) in a very short period of time. The US companies had much more robust R&D which allowed them to outcompete a lot of Canadian manufacturers and swallow them up.
Pre-Auto Pact, the US/Canadian industries didn’t really interact with each other since Canada had tariffs that prevented US-made vehicles from entering the country. Almost all vehicles sold here were made here, and all additional ones were exported to postwar Britain, which was still recovering from the war and could not produce their own (hence why we were the second largest auto industry in the world), but they were all being made by branch plants of the Big Four so there was no actual independent auto industry here, there was no real innovation or design going on. The Auto Pact essentially ripped off the bandaid and allowed the industry (at that time, four US companies that had an oligopoly on the North American auto market) to operate more efficiently and without the tariff wall, and it allowed Canadian auto parts manufacturers to sell to the US market.
IMO the big longstanding issue has been R&D and efficiency/productivity investments. US companies across many industries have famously been heavy on taking risks with investing in R&D and productivity, and Canadian companies have not, and it has cost us a national presence in many sectors. A tale as old as time unfortunately.
Wm Perkins Bull
Active Member
wopchop
Building Toronto
Well, exactly. That is sort of what @insertnamehere said. They won't sell. Those automakers may be finding through research that Canadians aren't interested in those vehicles, so then they aren't going to make that investment.
Now, if the barrier was lower, then there might be a different tipping point on what makes it worthwhile to invest.
hawc
Senior Member
I want a 2026 Lupo!
ssiguy2
Senior Member
The next year is do-or-die for Nissan. They have brought in a couple new model this year, the new Murano and Kicks both of which are getting great reviews. Later this year they will roll out the entirely new Leaf and the new Sentra which hopefully have a hybrid option.
Nissan's troubles are completely self-inflicted. They completely dropped the ball on hybrids which is costing them dearly. Thing is, Nissan actually produces a lot of hybrid vehicles but for some unknown reason, they don't sell any in Canada/US but do in Mexico??? I have a 2019 Kicks {now called the Kicks Play} and it's a great little car. I keep it well maintained and it's now at 95k km and I haven't had a single problem in the 6 years I've had it.
Nissan's troubles are completely self-inflicted. They completely dropped the ball on hybrids which is costing them dearly. Thing is, Nissan actually produces a lot of hybrid vehicles but for some unknown reason, they don't sell any in Canada/US but do in Mexico??? I have a 2019 Kicks {now called the Kicks Play} and it's a great little car. I keep it well maintained and it's now at 95k km and I haven't had a single problem in the 6 years I've had it.
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