Building subways without subsidies

[roch5220]

There is no guarantee fare-zones will increase revenue for the TTC anyways. Yes, many people will have to pay higher fares,

Nothing is guaranteed, but I'm sure that a properly priced distance travel pay schedule will have the proper effect. Systems that already use distance based travel like GO or in HK, I'm sure they've done their research and are reaping in the benefits since its very easy for them to switch to a flat fee based fare, if they were not having their desired effects.

If living futher out is too expensive for people because they cannot afford to drive, and transit costs $5 bucks each way, then it could also have the benefit of forcing people to live near where they live.

 

[spmarshall]

Nothing is guaranteed, but I'm sure that a properly priced distance travel pay schedule will have the proper effect. Systems that already use distance based travel like GO or in HK, I'm sure they've done their research and are reaping in the benefits since its very easy for them to switch to a flat fee based fare, if they were not having their desired effects.

GO's zone system is messed up. Period. There's no such thing as a properly priced distance travel system there, it's just become arbitrary. Equal distances can result in way different fares - Brampton in particular is screwed by GO's fare zone system, and the cabbageheads at GO don't give a sh*t. (Why Bramalea to York U is still the same fare at Square One to York U? I have no idea. Why Aurora-Union is cheaper than Brampton-Union, again no idea).

 

[roch5220]

Fine. But if you travel on a particular line, traveling from Port Credit is obviously cheaper than traveling from Clarkson. This makes conceptual sense. Your never going to have a perfect system. Does paying $2 going from STC to union via TTC make sense as paying $2 going from King Station to Union Station? No, it doesn't. Your never going to get it bang on. And I'm not surprised if GO doesn't pay enough attention to trips that don't end or start at union. Its geared more towards to and fro that point.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

So what will all these additional-due-to-lowered-fares short-trip downtown riders be riding on? The Spadina streetcar? Queen? Yonge subway northbound at 5pm? :b

 

[roch5220]

I don't necessarily like the idea of very low fares, there should be a minimum like $1.0. If people that live at say, college park and work downtown, who would otherwise walk, but would take the subway if it was like a $0.25, that would really kill the capacity of the YUL within the downtown ring. Because the YUL subway frequncies are very frequent, I really think that capacity constraints would be an issue because the TTC subway service is very good, vs other systems that offer poor/unrealible service where its more worthwhile to walk the short distances, regardless.

 

[doady]

yes, the TTC's capacity in downtown will be an issue if they go for distance-based fares. I don't see how it benefits the TTC financially when they have devote more resources to people who are paying lower fares anyways.

 

[wyliepoon]

But short trips are a lot less common in the suburbs than downtown.

I've heard that Kennedy and Steeles is one of the busiest intersections, if not the busiest, for TTC bus passengers, because of all the people in Scarborough who take the bus to Pacific Mall.

 

[Brighter Hell]

^Even that's a fair distance - over 11 km from STC to Pacific Mall, the same distance as from Kipling to downtown. I'd say the average transit trip for south-of-bloor types is shorter than that.

 

[cdl42]

Wha? Google gives me 8km from Brimley & Progress to Kennedy & Steeles, and 12km from Aukland & Dundas to Bloor & Avenue. Hardly the same, but still an interesting comparison.

A fare system that charges by the raw km doesn't exist anywhere in the world AFAIK. Zones are usually involved, and if done properly can be designed to reflect real-world demands and preceptions of distance.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Via the Kennedy bus and the STC Rocket, Pacific is exactly 10km away from STC. Of course, not many people travel specifically between the two. Sometimes 40 people get off the Steeles bus at Pacific Mall, sometimes no one gets on or off at Kennedy at all. I would not believe that Kennedy & Steeles is a busier TTC intersection than, say, McCowan & Finch or Warden & Finch.