Buenos Aires - Cliché Bitching About Toronto Thread

[Roy G Biv]

Ok. I used to be one of those "baby steps!"/"it's good for Toronto!!" types but I am through with the relativist pro-Toronto arguments.

Why is it that the capital of a 2nd world country puts far more stock into the yuppyfactors (transit, architecture, street-scaping) of its largest city? I am in B.A. right now and am blown away. This is a country that went bankrupt in 2001 for God sakes. Hell, the downtown population (non-metro) is quite similar.

Why is their newly revitalized waterfront killing ours?

Why are new buildings adhering to contemporary architectural trends? Ie. In 2002, a local architect donated a 13 tonne aluminum and steel flower that opens and closes at dawn and dusk using photocells and hydraulics. A fountain and park was created around it.

 

[RC8]

It's all down to the fact that most people in Buenos Aires live in apartment buildings. Not trying to fulfill the american dream does wonders for cities.

Also, Buenos Aires' downtown in the early 1900s was way richer than Toronto ever has been.

Finally, one of the reasons why Argentina cyclically goes to hell is because they spend all their money in things that don't produce money.

P.S. People from Buenos Aires regard their city as one of the world's most beautiful.

 

[BobBob]

I might be wrong, but I also expect that Argentines in general view their capital with pride and want it to be a showcase of their nation to the world. Torontonians, and Canadians in general, tend not to view Toronto (and certainly not Ottawa) that way at all.

 

[RC8]

Yeah, well. Not to mention that Buenos Aires is pretty much the only large city in the whole country. Their metropolitan area has over 12 million people, in other words, it's twice the size of the Greater Toronto Area population-wise.

If Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal were a single city sharing one downtown and being the country's capital we'd see something rather different... especially if it was also a historic port visited by hundreds of ships!

Don't underrate the likes of Santiago and Buenos Aires. They are spectacular lively cities. Never been to Montevideo, so can't comment.

 

[Dan416]

My mom visited many of the great cities of South America, including Buenos Aires and she loved it. Saw some pics. Very beautiful places. Moreso than Vancouver even.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

Keep in mind as well that Argentina was a much, much richer country starting from an earlier point in time than Canada was. So BA was always given lavish attention, as it was designed in the Haussman style. This is a city that had a subway early in the last century too, a time when Toronto was only beginning to pave many of its roads, much less thinking about rapid transit.

Plus, as someone of Argentine background, Argentinians (and portenos in particular) are arrogant SOBs and so it isn't surprising that so much attention is paid to BA, it truly is the cultural and economic capital of the country. Incidentally, Montevideo is supposedly a wonderful city.

 

[Tewder]

... well as with the Parisians it maybe takes a little 'arrogance' or confidence at least to create or demand beautiful surroundings. In comparison, Toronto often comes off as the dowdy hausfrau who at her core doesn't feel worthy.

 

[pman]

Maybe Buenos Aires doesn't have Quebec and the Atlantic Provinces to support. We'll never be able to afford to fix Toronto until we stop being Ottawa's tax farm. This federal election would be a good chance to ask what your candidates have done (answer: nothing) or will do to further Toronto's specific, narrow interests.

 

[BobBob]

^ Just a reminder that Torontonians recently elected a mayor who clearly sees city building as an elitist waste of time and money, so I think we should work on our local culture before blaming Quebec and the Maritimes for our civic under-achievement.

 

[old boy]

I don't think anyone needs reminding that TO has a mayor that enjoys a good figurative kick to the privates of any and all horrified elites, and just for the fun of it. It's what good ole boys do. Another reminder too, Quebec, and other vociferous regions of the country, have always been canny in feeding off the unwitting belly of nationally fixated Ontario. It's a wonder that Toronto keeps on surprising .

 

[TrickyRicky]

Roy,

Why don't you pick one thing you think Buenos Aires is doing right, document it, and see how you can advocate for it here in Toronto?

I should take my own advice but last summer when I was in London I thought about how they have an amazing park culture and how the districts had wonderful signs and maps at convenient points such as subway stations. I'm considering volunteering at my local community park organization, organizing an event at my local park, using them more, and approached my BIA about the idea of having branded local maps at key transit and pedestrian points.

I firmly believe that money is not really the issue. The issue is initiative and leadership. We live in one of the wealthiest nations in the world. Our priorities may differ but money always flows to initiative.

 

[neubilder]

^ Just a reminder that Torontonians recently elected a mayor who clearly sees city building as an elitist waste of time and money, so I think we should work on our local culture before blaming Quebec and the Maritimes for our civic under-achievement.

Bobbob, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

 

[BMO]

I've been to Buenos Aires, and Montevideo, and I have to say there are some stark similarities in the downtown built-form of BA and Paris. Now obviously once you start leaving the downtown it's not much to write home about, (stayed with some family there). I also have family in Montevideo, and it is quite nice as well. These two cities benefit form the natural climate a lot in this regard. Between the two cities Montevideo seems like the Uruguay's Toronto to Argentina's New York.

 

[Redroom Studios]

Lots of great points and I appreciate the enthusiasm of the original post. I always feel the exact same way when I travel internationally. I think the question of climate is often overlooked. On top of the long list of Toronto's short-comings we have a very extreme climate that takes a toll on infrastructure, streetscapes and buildings. Six months out of the year the weather is either beating the crap out of the city or preventing proper repairs from being made and so its this constant game of taking one step forward and then one step backwards. I dont offer this as an excuse but just a complicating factor in Toronto's case. It seems to me that warm weather cities likely dont have to spend so much on up keep of infrastructure, constantly be digging up roads and sidewalks which contributes to the aesthetic disparity and they can spend more money on improvements rather than simply maintaining what they have.

 

[Pfloyd]

^
The capitals of all the scandinavian countries deal with the same type of weather conditions we do in Toronto; but they look amazing. So I don't think it's an issue of climate, but one of lack of civic culture and lack pride in the built and urban environments, and of course, misplaced priorities. Otherwise, why in the world, our downtown streets (outside of the financial district, that is) still have the leaning wooden posts with all the utility wires running overhead? It is an EMBARRASSMENT, the city looks like a wild west frontier town, for god's sake!