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Broadview Extension Environmental Assessment (City of Toronto)

drum118

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Do we know how Broadview streetcar service is going to be operated once this is built? I can't imagine service on the 505 and 504 staying the same. They could maybe reroute the 505 onto Gerrard to Main with the 506 and then run a new line all the way down Broadview from Danforth to Commissioners?
This has been thrown around during various EA meetings behind close doors and it been all over the place depending on who running Planning and Service as well CEO for TTC.

The long range sees a Broadview line going over the shipping channel and loop on the north side of the channel in the short term or connecting to the Commissioner Line to loop at the Leslie Barns

TTC has land at Queen and Broadview to build a loop for the 504 and still allow 505 to run as is.

Then there the thought of taking 505 along Dundas to Carlaw and then to Main Station or X.

The Broadview extension will start to wash thing out, but a lot of the board members will be gone before streetcar service makes it way south at the current rate things gets done by TTC.

The Master Plan started in 2004 with a vision of taking Broadview south that had the RR storage yard in place as well getting south of Eastern Ave. 2008-2010 EA's saw a real chance to get to Commissioner with the RR yard being remove, but being flying very little these days since 2010. Has got some talk during other EA's for land use, but mostly talk.

At this time, the only talk taking place is about QQE extension as well where the streetcar loop maybe considering the line to Lower Parliament St is close to 10 years late opening at this time. May see it by 2030 considering the plan January meeting has yet to happen that was supposed to be done a few months ago.

I don't expect to see the Ontario Line up and running before 2035 considering the idea and approved plan is now 112 years old.

As for street width. it will be along the lines of QQ and no greater than the existing road north of Eastern.
 

KhalilHeron

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This has been thrown around during various EA meetings behind close doors and it been all over the place depending on who running Planning and Service as well CEO for TTC.

The long range sees a Broadview line going over the shipping channel and loop on the north side of the channel in the short term or connecting to the Commissioner Line to loop at the Leslie Barns

TTC has land at Queen and Broadview to build a loop for the 504 and still allow 505 to run as is.

Then there the thought of taking 505 along Dundas to Carlaw and then to Main Station or X.

The Broadview extension will start to wash thing out, but a lot of the board members will be gone before streetcar service makes it way south at the current rate things gets done by TTC.

The Master Plan started in 2004 with a vision of taking Broadview south that had the RR storage yard in place as well getting south of Eastern Ave. 2008-2010 EA's saw a real chance to get to Commissioner with the RR yard being remove, but being flying very little these days since 2010. Has got some talk during other EA's for land use, but mostly talk.

At this time, the only talk taking place is about QQE extension as well where the streetcar loop maybe considering the line to Lower Parliament St is close to 10 years late opening at this time. May see it by 2030 considering the plan January meeting has yet to happen that was supposed to be done a few months ago.

I don't expect to see the Ontario Line up and running before 2035 considering the idea and approved plan is now 112 years old.

As for street width. it will be along the lines of QQ and no greater than the existing road north of Eastern.
Well let's hope they can start getting things done a little faster this decade🙃
I'm designing a map set sometime in the 2030s and am just trying to figure out the most practical way to service Broadview, and I mean if the TTC won't tell us their early concepts for it I guess that's up to me🤷‍♂️
Between what I said before bout routing the 505 to main via Gerrard with a dedicated Broadview streetcar, or having the same Broadview streetcar and terminating the 504B at queen and Broadview or Dundas, which sounds the most efficient and practical do think?
 

nfitz

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[/QUOTE]
Well let's hope they can start getting things done a little faster this decade🙃
I'm designing a map set sometime in the 2030s and am just trying to figure out the most practical way to service Broadview, and I mean if the TTC won't tell us their early concepts for it I guess that's up to me🤷‍♂️
Between what I said before bout routing the 505 to main via Gerrard with a dedicated Broadview streetcar, or having the same Broadview streetcar and terminating the 504B at queen and Broadview or Dundas, which sounds the most efficient and practical do think?
One thing to consider is the map TTC was floating around in late 2019, for proposed service once they've got the full streetcar fleet.

503 running from Bingham Loop to Dufferin Gate Loop
504A from Dundas West to Distillery Loop
504B from Broadview to Humber Loop (future Parkview loop)
501A from Neville Park Loop to Sunnyside Loop
501B from Long Branch Loop to Broadview/Dundas (future Riverside Loop)


1611212764909.png
 

Northern Light

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Quick question: Why is service on Bathurst from Bloor to St. Clair non-revenue service only?

The streetcars which supply service to St.Clair must use Bathurst to get on/off St. Clair; but they don't pass through Bathurst Station on the way.

I'm not sure there'd be a lot of utility in changing that.

There's already a bus service for that area.

The only passengers served would be those going no further than St. Clair.

Streetcars also only traverse this section in numbers at the beginning/end of each day, to a lesser degree, before/after rush hours.

So it wouldn't offer service at most times.

*****

Thinking of it another way, most buses do not do pick-ups on their way to the beginning of their route.

*****

You could, in theory operate the Bathurst route 511 up to St. Clair; that's been looked at in the past; the determination was that this would inconvenience more riders than it benefited.
 
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drum118

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The streetcars which supply service to St.Clair must use Bathurst to get on/off St. Clair; but they don't pass through Bathurst Station on the way.

I'm not sure there'd be a lot of utility in changing that.

There's already a bus service for that area.

The only passengers served would be those going no further than St. Clair.

Streetcars also only traverse this section in numbers at the beginning/end of each day, to a lesser degree, before/after rush hours.

So it wouldn't offer service at most times.

*****

Thinking of it another way, most buses do not do pick-ups on their way to the beginning of their route.

*****

You could, in theory operate the Bathurst route 511 up to St. Clair; that's been looked at in the past; the determination was that this would inconvenience more riders than it benefited.
Have seen a number of 512 using Bathurst Station Loop going to St Clair, as some driver pickup riders along the way. Same going south, but not as much going north. Been on a few that have done this since I was going to St Clair in the first place or going south.
 

smallspy

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Quick question: Why is service on Bathurst from Bloor to St. Clair non-revenue service only?
Simply put, there isn't a need to.

The bulk of ridership on at the south end Bathurst is from about Lawrence down to almost Bloor. And a very, very healthy proportion of that passes across St. Clair West, from points north of it to points south.

Thus, an additional service south of St. Clair West wouldn't really be beneficial in the grand scheme of things, and would require additional equipment and costs to operate.

Dan
 

Jonny5

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There's also a reality that people inside the green circles I added to the map are far more likely to be full time drivers who rarely, and possibly never use the TTC at all. Much more so than anywhere else in the downtown area at least.
They aren't clamouring for a through service on Bathurst. They don't even know what service exists on Bathurst beyond that it "gets in their way".

1611328723462.png
 

W. K. Lis

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Quick question: Why is service on Bathurst from Bloor to St. Clair non-revenue service only?

Because in 1907, when they started planning for a streetcar right-of-way along St. Clair Avenue (opened in 1913), Bathurst Street north of St. Clair was just a country road. The borders of the City of Toronto ended just north of St. Clair Avenue.


From link.
 

Northern Light

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The Ontario Line could also make some rerouting possibilities too. For instance, the 505 ending at Gerrard Station (at Carlaw) instead of Broadview as one possibility.

How do you envision that routing? Up Broadview to Gerrard and over to the east?

Or

Along Dundas to Carlaw and up? (the latter requiring considerable new track, and possibly displacing the bike lanes)
 

KhalilHeron

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How do you envision that routing? Up Broadview to Gerrard and over to the east?

Or

Along Dundas to Carlaw and up? (the latter requiring considerable new track, and possibly displacing the bike lanes)
Most likely up Broadview. With a dedicated Broadview streetcar that would mean three routes along the same segment of the road but if they get the signals right it should work fine.
 

Streety McCarface

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There's also a reality that people inside the green circles I added to the map are far more likely to be full time drivers who rarely, and possibly never use the TTC at all. Much more so than anywhere else in the downtown area at least.
They aren't clamouring for a through service on Bathurst. They don't even know what service exists on Bathurst beyond that it "gets in their way".

View attachment 295497
Rosedale and Summerhill maybe, but anything in the Annex and West of the Annex is all transit users. It's a shame the dupont streetcar no longer exists.
 

JasonParis

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How do you envision that routing? Up Broadview to Gerrard and over to the east?

Or

Along Dundas to Carlaw and up? (the latter requiring considerable new track, and possibly displacing the bike lanes)
Unless there's some expropriation and/or tunnelling, Broadview/Gerrard would be the likely route, even if Dundas/Carlaw would be operationally better.
 

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