Brampton Transit/Zum

[Evening]

From a transit planning and operations perspective it makes the most sense to seperate the two. You have an ideal point to split the route, at a terminal where chances are you're going to see most people get off at anyways. Longer routes suffer from reliability issues and problems with matching up frequencies accordingly between the two portions of the route.

With the Eglinton line finally coming to fruition, the TTC plans on splitting a lot of their NS routes up at the Eglinton line terminals.

I understand that there maybe reliability issues (and we should be investing in bus lanes/BRT to mitigate these) but splitting the route would really disincentive people from taking the bus if they are heading east of Downtown which (I think is safe to say) most people are. Especially if these people are already taking a bus to get to Queen Street, that would mean two transfers. Two (or more) transfers I think would cancel out any incentives that are created from having nicer buses.

 

[aleesia]

Well, it's that time of the year again:

http://www.brampton.ca/EN/residents...onTransit_PICBoards_March2015_web_full_P2.pdf

Major highlights revolve around 5 corridors: Steeles, Queen, Chinguacousy, James Potter / Mavis, and Dixie

- Some confusing service on Steeles West:
511 from Lisgar to Humber will run during the weekday daytime only, with weekday evening and weekend service being provided by Route 11 extension to Lisgar
Current Route 11 becomes 11A
Current 51A cancelled, will become 511
51 will be renamed to Mississauga Road (probably will be taken off Shoppers World in the future in favour of going north-south)
I wish they just extend 511 to Meadowvale, maybe MiWay is just protecting the inevitable migration of Meadowvale - Humber ridership to a super-extended 511.

- Queen West (2016 preview):
Preliminary routing available, where 1 extends to Mount Pleasant via Mississauga Road.
56 will become its initial routing, a feeder route than being a Queen West route.
I now see that 1 will go all the way to Winston Churchill in the future.

- Chinguacousy:
Will now go all Chinguacousy until it hits Mt. Pleasant area, where it becomes a mess.
New routes: 57 serves Drinkwater, 6 serves James Potter (more below).

- James Potter:
Route 6 going from Queen to Mavis/Derry to connect with 42, 57, 61/61A, 66, and the Hurontario routes.
Will be eventually going to Mt. Pleasant

- Dixie (another preview):
Oh, I knew they are talking about this corridor after the Hanlan construction mess!
Basically Bramalea to Dixie Station is what is being planned, though what I firmly believe in is that this will be a MiWay Route 105 from Bramalea to either of the four terminals: Dixie Station, Dixie Mall, Long Branch, or Humber Lakeshore.

Some minor stuff:
- Mess of loops south of Shoppers World will become even messier. 53, 54 cancelled in favour of 55. 52's south loop may be cancelled in favour of 59 in one option.
- Another mess of loops at the Bramalea Industrial area. I wish 20 just gets extended to Westwood if they go Option 1. Route 41 will be created for option 2, to interline with 16.
- 31's giant loop at the south will be back to a simple triangular shape again, with a new route 36 taking over the looped part.
- 18 goes north of Countryside, 19 taken off Trinity Common.
- 26 may extend to Mayfield.
- 9 and 25 to combine, with a possible new route 60 to take care of 9's eastern part.

 

[Evening]

I was pretty disappointed.

The 511 extension seems to be another major watering down of the Zum brand. I don't understand why they decided with a Zum extension there in the first place if it can't support all day service. There are several north south routes that are much more needing of Zum.

They also appear to be stuck on this obsession with these circular, winding, and messy local routes. They should be look to grid line or eliminate those routes and spend more of their resources on improving frequencies and connections on major grid routes.

 

[TOareaFan]

I like the idea of extending 511 west to the Lisgar station. It anchors the route at a transportation station and becomes the first Zum line to connect to the Milton GO line and serves the growing employment lands on Steeles West.

Are there North/south routes/lines that have riderships more in line with Zum....sure, but those would be entirely new lines and are likely more expensive/difficult to implement than a fairly simple western extension of an existing line to a more logical end point.

 

[doady]

It's sad, Brampton Transit still has no idea how to design useful loop routes.

 

[ShonTron]

I was at the PIC at City Hall earlier this evening.

Yes, I'm a bit disappointed by some of the changes planned.

The good:
- Gridlining Route 4/A straight up and down Chinguacousy Road - new routes 6 James Potter and Route 57 Drinkwater take up the local routings
- Route 6 James Potter. It has the potential to be a major collector route. The plan to run it from Queen Street all the way to Derry and Hurontario via Mavis is great. More inter-municipal connections are always a good thing.
- Cleaning up the routings in the far east end. Route 50 is improved and straightened, the other local routes rationalized.

The bad:
- There isn't anything bad. No service cuts, nothing really annoying.

The ugly:
- The 511 service:
Here's why 511 is being extended west to Lisgar, and only during daytime weekday hours - there's a demand for service along the corridor; it links two post-secondary institutions (Sheridan Davis and Humber North) and two GO stations (Lisgar and Bramalea). Apparently, there are passengers commuting from Milton to industrial parks in Brampton and the colleges; this is meant to serve those markets, that don't exist evenings and weekends. Plus the feds are partially paying for the buses and shelters/roadworks, so they're stuck with the corridor that the funding proposal that was submitted. I too don't like the watering-down of the Zum brand, but hey, VIVA is even worse for that.
- The Southwest Brampton mess:
Local demands and pressure resulted in the loops on Oaklea, King Knoll, Cherrytree and Havelock. If some experts had their way, there would be a direct east-west bus along Ray Lawson. Honestly, they tried. But the newest changes separate the through services more from the messy one-way loops.

The interesting:
- Sheridan College is building a new bus terminal that will allow the 511, 51 and 11 extensions to directly serve the campus.
- GO Transit is looking to rebuild Bramalea GO yet again that would improve bus operations; allowing routes 11, 511 and even the 115 to easily enter the station grounds.

 

[apayette89]

I was at the PIC at City Hall earlier this evening.
The interesting:
- Sheridan College is building a new bus terminal that will allow the 511, 51 and 11 extensions to directly serve the campus.
- GO Transit is looking to rebuild Bramalea GO yet again that would improve bus operations; allowing routes 11, 511 and even the 115 to easily enter the station grounds.

That is interesting.. Any more detailed info on what is planned for Bramalea GO?

 

[ShonTron]

I only spoke with one of the planners. Supposedly, the new Bramalea GO bus terminal will have entrances to Steeles (a new all-moves transit-exclusive entrance) and to Bramalea Road, it would move the buses to be right up against the station building, with kiss and ride and the parking on the other side, closer to the street.

The big advantage is that it makes all transfers in the Steeles/Bramalea area far easier to do; no long walks at the intersection and to the station. Bramalea is increasingly important as an intermodal hub, being the connection between the Kitchener rail corridor, and 407 services to York U, Mississauga/Hamilton and increasingly to Guelph and Kitchener. The 115 and the GO 34 provide the airport connection.

---

With the focus on serving Lisgar, the missed opportunity is connecting the Mount Pleasant GO with Meadowvale, IMHO.

 

[TOareaFan]

With the focus on serving Lisgar, the missed opportunity is connecting the Mount Pleasant GO with Meadowvale, IMHO.

Not sure there is a focus on serving Lisgar as much as there is a desire to connect with the Milton GO line and the clearest/easiest route to do that with is the Steeles service......bringing those buses further on Steeles connects to Milton GO while also connecting the businesses along the route more clearly to the Brampton transit system.

Not sure I understand what the reason would be to connect Mount Pleasant GO and Meadowvale GO would be but if there was a reason would it not be easier with some sort of route along Mississauga Road?

 

[Transportfan]

Zum Steeles 511 stop nearing completion at Mississauga Rd and Steeles:

Completed stop on Winston Churchill:

 

[doady]

Do we really need Zum stops in the middle of farm fields? It seems a bit excessive.

 

[wopchop]

Do we really need Zum stops in the middle of farm fields? It seems a bit excessive.

Mississauga Road stop is kitty corner to the new Canon Canada HQ (I believe the other corners are zoned for office space, as well). The Winston Churchill site is across from Amazon's warehouse.

I wonder though, if they analyzed a route that instead went down Mississauga Road to Meadowvale to connect to the Milton GO Line, instead of at Lisgar. Seems like far more trip generators along that strip.

 

[doady]

Doesn't Brampton Transit have plans for a Mississauga Rd route one day? It seems pointless to divert Steeles service onto Mississauga Rd. Meadowvale is just a park-and-ride lot anyways. Not really a destination. In contrast, Lisgar is beside a power centre.

I would like to see MT realign route 44 onto Mississauga Rd and into Brampton, bypassing Meadowvale. At the same time a Brampton Mississauga Road route can take over the 44's current service along Millcreek/Aquitaine to Meadowvale Town Centre. With both the 38 and 43 serving Argentia now (although I don't think 38 should service Argentia either), there would no need to take the 44 off Mississauga Road, it can go to Steeles.

 

[wopchop]

Doesn't Brampton Transit have plans for a Mississauga Rd route one day? It seems pointless to divert Steeles service onto Mississauga Rd. Meadowvale is just a park-and-ride lot anyways. Not really a destination. In contrast, Lisgar is beside a power centre.

Yes, I get that, but I was responding to the idea that this route is connecting to Lisgar GO because there is apparently demand for people commuting from Milton to Brampton destinations along Steeles Avenue.

It's not Meadowvale that is the destination, but the large employment district that is north of it, which is one of the largest in the GTA. Improved service from Meadowvale to Brampton along Mississauga Road to Steeles Avenue would better connect Brampton & Milton commuters to Meadowvale office parks.

Anyway, it's just a thought for debate, is all.

 

[TOareaFan]

Yes, I get that, but I was responding to the idea that this route is connecting to Lisgar GO because there is apparently demand for people commuting from Milton to Brampton destinations along Steeles Avenue.

It's not Meadowvale that is the destination, but the large employment district that is north of it, which is one of the largest in the GTA. Improved service from Meadowvale to Brampton along Mississauga Road to Steeles Avenue would better connect Brampton & Milton commuters to Meadowvale office parks.

Anyway, it's just a thought for debate, is all.

And all of those businesses are in Mississauga....as opposed to Brampton's own efforts to develop Steeles West as a business area.

I know we like to talk about meaningless municipal borders and all that but, as a Brampton taxpayer, I kinda like the idea that faced with the decision of turning south to connect with Milton GO and, along the way serving business parks in Mississauga OR continuing west on Steeles to connect at Lisgar and, along the way, serving business that are located in/employ people in/pay taxes in Brampton.....that they chose the latter.

Yes there are more existing places of employment on Mississauga road....but if we believe that available transit is an influence on business location....I would prefer that the City of Brampton spend Brampton tax dollars influencing businesses to choose Steeles West, in Brampton, as a location for their businesses.

I have no inside knowledge that this was a factor in which GO station to take the Steeles West route to.....but I hope it was.