Black Lives Matter Toronto

[BlackLivesMatterJeff]

These are the thugs that think they are akin to the passive resistance of places like Selma.

They look like Black Shirts to me, BIG SMILE! BIG SMILE!

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If this isn't a racist comment I don't know what is. The issue at hand was that Pride was founded as an underground rebel movement and since it gained acceptance and went mainstream it is its duty to accept and stand in solidarity against the suffering of other minorities who are systematically discriminated against and killed. We were right to demand the Pride organizers to sign the pledge that they did and to exclude the police since they are responsible for the deaths of countless young black men.

We constantly hear about the attacks in France but what about the countless blacks that are killed daily by racist cops for no reason other than their skin colour? I'm sorry but there is no in between. You can't just pay lip service and expect a pat on the back. You are either with us or against us. You either support Black Lives Matter or you are a racist.

 

[rbt]

You are either with us or against us. You either support Black Lives Matter or you are a racist.

Oooh. An ultimatum instead of rational discussion. I almost always pick the other side in those cases, even when I would strongly prefer not to be on the other side.

"With us or against us" is a fast way to lose support, regardless of what it is (striking union, rate-payers association, transit plans, or anything else). The statement itself is toxic and creates unnecessary confrontation and escalation.


You've already got an insanely easy message to sell: "Death is bad!". Go with that (and tell us all ways we can help) instead; it's hard not to support that message.

 

[riffraff]

We here, and in the media, have spent much time and space comparing Rob Ford and Donald Trump in their speech, their style, their privileged sense of entitlement and their appeal to a significant portion of voters who feel angry, frustrated and fearful. In Canada we feel ours to be a kinder-gentler society than in the US, and have long defined ourselves as NOT Americans. We did good by turning our backs federally on the mean-spirited, demonstrably racist CPC in the last election.

I've noted before that, for me, Rob Ford's legacy was once again making it no big thing to use racist epithets and dog-whistles publicly. Even Mikey has dropped his attempt to appear more liberal-minded in his run for Ward 2.

How rude of BLM not to criticize our ongoing racism politely! How uppity of them to DEMAND meetings with the Police Chief, our Compassionate Conservative Mayor and our Premier. You will note that it has only been Kathleen Wynne who is even talking about Systemic Racism in policing province-wide.

I believe that BLMTO is a long-overdue wake up call to this city and country. I want to thank them for getting a foot in the door to exposing the lack of accountability in the police service, the TPSB, the SIU, and the legal framework that privileges the police over the citizens it is sworn to serve and protect. I remember the G20 the summer before Rob Ford was elected and the inability we had to defend our civil "rights" to free speech, lawful protest, and not to be arbitrarily detained. The "System" did a great job in defending itself.

And Pride too deserves to be held accountable for its role as a premiere Token of Liberation and tourism promoter deeply funded from the public purse and corporate sponsors. We should be less in awe of politicians for appearing at this event than we apparently are.

I've been following BLM since Ferguson and have noted that, in a country that loves to create "Enemies", BLM has largely been cast as "terrorists". I've also noticed that the build--the-wall, ban-all-Muslims, get-them-out-of-here billionaire White Supremecist Republican presidential candidate is being celebrated as a liberator.

Hell, I'm a white Canadian and I'm scared because I'm hearing a lot of resonance in our Polite Society.

 

[BlackLivesMatterJeff]

Oooh. An ultimatum instead of rational discussion. I almost always pick the other side in those cases, even when I would strongly prefer not to be on the other side.

"With us or against us" is a fast way to lose support, regardless of what it is (striking union, rate-payers association, transit plans, or anything else). The statement itself is toxic and creates unnecessary confrontation and escalation.


You've already got an insanely easy message to sell: "Death is bad!". Go with that (and tell us all ways we can help) instead; it's hard not to support that message.

Rational discussion? We’ll talk rationally when the police stops committing genocide on innocent young black men. Men like Michael Brown did absolutely nothing wrong and their only crime was being black. Unless this stops there can be no rational discussion nor tolerance of dissent.

Here’s another example. When BLM tried to rationally engage Pride, we were ignored. But when we got in their face and refused to unblock the parade unless they signed our demands they quickly accepted. They knew what’s good for them because they didn’t want us to expose the racist elements that have crept into Pride in recent years. I’m a huge supporter of LGBT rights but Pride had to recognize who their allies are instead of pretending everything was dandy and rosy.

In fact racism is so bad everybody should be made to sign those demands in Canada and the USA. There are way too many racists that we need to identify who they are and take appropriate actions against them. The prison system is full of innocent young black men who were pretty much labelled “criminal” from their youth but I think we should replace them and put racists there instead. Racism should be made illegal and the offenders punished with jail time.

 

[BlackLivesMatterJeff]

I've been following BLM since Ferguson and have noted that, in a country that loves to create "Enemies", BLM has largely been cast as "terrorists"

Yeah totally. First they pick on Muslims now they’re saying that BLM are terrorists but have they looked at the root cause? Ever since Islam was founded over 1000 years ago it has been continuously oppressed by imperialistic white Christians even though their followers were peaceful and non-aggressive. Before the latter half of the 20th century Muslims NEVER tried to bother Christians nor invade Christian dominated countries and for that they were oppressed. It was only in the last half century or so that the Muslims had enough and decided to fight their oppressors. This is the exact same thing that is happening to blacks in America. Enough is enough.

I've also noticed that the build--the-wall, ban-all-Muslims, get-them-out-of-here billionaire White Supremecist Republican presidential candidate is being celebrated as a liberator.

Hell, I'm a white Canadian and I'm scared because I'm hearing a lot of resonance in our Polite Society.

I was born white as well but we need to recognize white privilege. If you are white you are automatically given a high status in society which is not handed down to visible minorities. I was disgusted by this and tattooed my left hand black so that I could stand in solidarity against the oppression of visible minorities and thereby cleansing myself of white privilege. You would be surprised how judgmental some people are. How many times have I been denied employment by racist white men who didn’t like my statement?

And don't get me started about the wall!!! NOBODY IS ILLEGAL! I repeat NOBODY! There should be no walls or borders since those are fascist ideas.

 

[rbt]

Rational discussion?

Yeah. It worked for the gay movement. Took a bit of time, but here we are with such huge acceptance that it's something that can be looked at for inspiration on how to tackle actual long-term change. You'll recall the hundreds of people beaten and arrested simply for hanging out in various buildings downtown Toronto; some of whom were even killed. Many older men on this forum were on the pain-side of those incidents.

Men like Michael Brown did absolutely nothing wrong and their only crime was being black.

That's horrible; we all agree on that. How do I, a person who is not a cop or involved in law enforcement in any way, prevent this in a way that doesn't sacrifice the safety of others including the police officers.. This is where the rational discussion part comes into play.

Step by step. What petition? Where is the rally? Why do cops do this in the first place (what's the trigger, and how do we eliminate it)? Will it help other groups that also tend to get into bad situations outside of their control?

Unless this stops there can be no rational discussion nor tolerance of dissent.

That's exactly backward. Without rational discussion there will be no change. Hysterics, publicity stunt, and hand-waving the racism card do nothing to improve the situation.

Improvement will come from a change in policy or procedure. That's going to happen after calm rational discussion begins about the consequences (both good and bad) about those changes.

I was disgusted by this and tattooed my left hand black so that I could stand in solidarity against the oppression of visible minorities and thereby cleansing myself of white privilege.

Why does nobody want to fight for the Albino African.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

I was surprised there wasn't already a BLMTo thread here -- the Rob Ford's Toronto thread is getting cluttered with posts and the 'is Toronto racist?' thread gets no love, probably due to the fact it's not specific to BLM's issues and organization.

So, have it! For the record, I'm a supporter, but I think they and their supporters are being disingenuous about the poor guy that was just trying to get a parade moving. His signing some non-binding non-contract, then backtracking, was maybe not the way everyone would deal with it, but I sympathize with his dilemma.

Mods, feel free to move other posts or not as you see fit.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Mods, feel free to move other posts or not as you see fit.

Thanks for setting up the thread and tis *mostly* done.

MoD

 

[JWBF]

Yeah totally....

Totally Indeed! We have a honest to goodness Authoritarian Socialist proselytizing the good news.

Let me state some points to get them out of the way, to clarify my position...

1) Racism exists and should be relegated to the past.

2) “White Privilege” is a racist term, so are “Black Power” and “White Power”

3) You should fight for what is yours, as in equality, instead of blaming those for taking away something only you can give away.

4) Ghettos, ‘hoods, barrios and the like are a two-edged sword, and in a perfect world would not be needed.

5) The greatest need of dictionaries is among believers of “orthodoxies”.

6) People need to back up their arguments with actual facts, not just spurious facts and associations.

7) Self loathers have deeper problems and should deal with them first instead of finding scapegoats and “causes” to help better project their self loathing, and promote their “victimization”.

I don’t see the world as colours to be categorized and labeled, I see people and form my personal opinions on personal interaction, not on the bigotries, etc. that have built up by those who want attention and power over others.

You call me racist for forming opinions based on fact (as in the BLM co-opting the Pride Parade in Toronto, and using established rhetoric/symbols) and for disagreeing with your opinions, am I also an anti-semite for disagreeing with a Jew or Israel over an issue?

I support protests, we need them in the broken societies we have, however, head-butting fascisms and authoritarians are a futility since they cannot exist without the other, the end game is not to annihilate the other side but to control the greatest amount of people, which waxes and wanes in the perpetual “struggle”.

Have you read Nineteen-Eighty-Four?

 

[BlackLivesMatterJeff]

Yeah. It worked for the gay movement. Took a bit of time, but here we are with such huge acceptance that it's something that can be looked at for inspiration on how to tackle actual long-term change. You'll recall the hundreds of people beaten and arrested simply for hanging out in various buildings downtown Toronto; some of whom were even killed. Many older men on this forum were on the pain-side of those incidents.
.

I respect the gay movement and don't want to belittle it but according to my acknowledge the police wasn't committing genocide against gays. Yeah they raided gay clubs and beat them up and even killed some but they didn't shoot them likes flies like they are doing to black men. If BLM didn't have an in your face attitude the organizers of Pride never would have listened to us and believe me we will be heard no matter what. BLM is here to stay and we will get what we want either by negotiation or by protest.

That's exactly backward. Without rational discussion there will be no change. Hysterics, publicity stunt, and hand-waving the racism card do nothing to improve the situation.

Improvement will come from a change in policy or procedure. That's going to happen after calm rational discussion begins about the consequences (both good and bad) about those changes.
.

You can call it what you will but that is the future. As for the "race card" term, I've found it's mostly used by racists who try to deflect any racism on their part. Same thing with the term "political correctness" and "freedom of speech"; these terms are the last refuge of the fascist and racist.

Why does nobody want to fight for the Albino African.

OK this comment border lines racism. Albino African? If you had read my post you would have seen that I was born white but wasn't to cleanse a part of my white privilege and it worked, not 100 % but I'm not exactly privileged anymore like white people. If I didn't tattoo my arm I would have had a lucrative job but I chose to sacrifice this for standing in solidarity with oppressed minorities.

 

[BlackLivesMatterJeff]

2) “White Privilege” is a racist term,

You have to be white to say something like that because white people don't realize how easy it is for them. Try being a black person. It's easy to have a big house in the suburbs and a well paying job when you're white but employment opportunities are denied to you simply for your skin colour when you're black. And if that isn't enough you have the police hunting you like prey.

T
3) You should fight for what is yours, as in equality, instead of blaming those for taking away something only you can give away.

What about slavery? And compensation for blacks? I don't recall anybody compensating blacks for being slaves. Affirmative action is not enough we need an asset redistribution plan.

[QU

6) People need to back up their arguments with actual facts, not just spurious facts and associations.

Here's a fact: more black men are killed by cops weekly than the so-called France terror attacks. Why does society not talk about that?

By the way you referred to black women as black shirts! Like blackie! That is racist and bigoted!

 

[W. K. Lis]

I'd rather engage in a show of unity and harmony with one's opponents or enemies, than cause more battles.

 

[doady]

Police floats don't belong in parades. Doesn't matter if it's Pride or not.

The idea of "rational discussion" as the solution is laughable. So unarmed black men keep getting killed by police because they are not "rational" enough. Right. That is victim blaming. That is racism.

If black people want to stop being victims, they need to fight back. Bullies only respond to strength, not "rational discussion". That's why this thread is pointless and the whole Black Lives Matter thing is pointless.

 

[riffraff]

Goals, strategies, tactics and optics. Especially optics.

In the news today the report of another police shooting this time of a totally compliant Black man, a therapist trying to talk his adult autistic patient off the middle of the road and back into the facility he had run out of. When the police arrived, while complying with the cops' orders to lie down and raise his hands, the therapist was also trying to calm his patient while trying to get the patient to comply. The cops shot the therapist twice in the legs, but at least they got him to the hospital for treatment.

In the news today reports of the (lack of) progress toward finalizing the scope of the MMIW Inquiry arising out of the Truth and Reconciliation process findings, and the choice of appointments to the panel. Also, reports that a leaked draft of the topics for the inquiry does not include reviewing policing which was a priority at all of the consultation meetings to frame the inquiry. Additionally, the families of victims are complaining that they are not being adequately informed on their cases by the police.

And then yesterday, on the home front, reports on the TPS tribute to slain American officers at the Queens Park memorial addressed by Police Chief Saunders, Police Union Leader McCormack and Mayor Tory.

Wow. A demonstration of how much AllLivesMatter.

 

[riffraff]

Sorry, factual error. The therapist was shot once in the leg with an assault rifle. The incident happened Monday and the victim is apparently still in hospital. I've seen/heard nothing about protests, apparently the victim's lawyer and the cops are in negotiations.