picard102
Senior Member
The city owns plenty of land it's not rushing to redevelop. Least of all land susceptible to floods like the islands.
Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup
The city owns plenty of land it's not rushing to redevelop. Least of all land susceptible to floods like the islands.
Northern Light
Superstar
Cinnamon
Active Member
Neither.
picard102
Senior Member
Great, so airport it is then.
DirectionNorth
Active Member
So the housing prices are just fine? Or is a redundant airport more important than actual city functions?
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
rbt
Senior Member
The airport is primarily land owned by the province. Low priced or discounted residential isn't a goal for them on their current waterfront land assets up for development.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I was referring to the increase in pollution from more and larger aircraft flying over their neighborhoods.
But hey, just talk about noise and ignore all the other impacts. The Champagne socialist way.
Map by UofT researchers highlights city's most polluted neighbourhoods
The neighbourhood you choose to live in could have a big impact on the quality of air you are breathing, according to a soon-to-be released study by researchers at the University of Toronto.
www.cp24.com
Lower middle class my a**. Lower middle class folks can't afford to pay half a million dollars or $2000/mo in rent for a 500 sqft one bedroom condo.
And no, if your parents spot you $100k for your downpayment in your twenties, you're not "lower middle class".
kEiThZ
Superstar
Whatever reduces employment diversity and makes this town more dependent on inflating real estate.
The UT way.
I actually support getting rid of the airport. But absent substantial investment in High Speed Rail, completion of the Kitchener RER and the Pearson Transit Hub, the argument against YTZ is weak.
Northern Light
Superstar
I was referring to the increase in pollution from more and larger aircraft flying over their neighborhoods.
But hey, just talk about noise and ignore all the other impacts. The Champagne socialist way.
Map by UofT researchers highlights city's most polluted neighbourhoods
The neighbourhood you choose to live in could have a big impact on the quality of air you are breathing, according to a soon-to-be released study by researchers at the University of Toronto.
Lower middle class my a**. Lower middle class folks can't afford to pay half a million dollars or $2000/mo in rent for a 500 sqft one bedroom condo.
And no, if your parents spot you $100k for your downpayment in your twenties, you're not "lower middle class".
The 'average' rent for all of Toronto is over $1,800 per month (for a 1 bdrm)
And it is paid, on average, by people who have a less than average household income.
September 2023 Rentals.ca Report
rentals.ca
Relevant passage from above:
kEiThZ
Superstar
The 'average' rent for all of Toronto is over $1,800 per month (for a 1 bdrm)
And it is paid, on average, by people who have a less than average household income.
September 2023 Rentals.ca Report
Twentysomething childless singles do indeed tend to have "less than average household income". The fact that most of them can afford to blow a chunk of that on expensive downtown real estate puts a lie to this argument that they are "lower middle class". For the most part, they are often young, childless, working professionals with a whole lot of disposable income who really couldn't give a damn about the airport for the most part.
Also, we aren't talking rent for "all of Toronto". We're discussing the core areas near the subject of this thread.
afransen
Senior Member
Median household income is $90k ish. I would definite lower middle class as below median family income. And yes, it would definitely be a struggle to own real estate on that kind of income, much less a house. No way are you getting approved for a mortgage for 10x your income.I was referring to the increase in pollution from more and larger aircraft flying over their neighborhoods.
But hey, just talk about noise and ignore all the other impacts. The Champagne socialist way.
Map by UofT researchers highlights city's most polluted neighbourhoods
The neighbourhood you choose to live in could have a big impact on the quality of air you are breathing, according to a soon-to-be released study by researchers at the University of Toronto.
Lower middle class my a**. Lower middle class folks can't afford to pay half a million dollars or $2000/mo in rent for a 500 sqft one bedroom condo.
And no, if your parents spot you $100k for your downpayment in your twenties, you're not "lower middle class".
Northern Light
Superstar
Neighbourhood specific data below:
Given that 18.7% of the Waterfront and the Islands neighbourhood does not live in public housing, yet have income below the poverty line; it logically follows that at least some are renting in the private market.
It also follows that there must be some people between the median income number and the poverty line.
The argument, by the way, (from me), is not that the lower-middle-class or the poor constitute a majority of residents of this area, or even the largest plurality.
Rather, it addresses the argument that there are no, or very few such people in the neighbourhood.
Btw, the housing located directly at the foot of Bathurst, is co-op and TCHC housing, right beside the airport.
679 Queen's Quay West and 25 Bishop Tutu Blvd.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Which goes back to my point that these stats don't reflect the actual socioeconomic status of people living there.
A young single lawyer making $90k living in a one bedroom at Fort York. Is that what comes to mind when someone says, "lower middle class"?
This reminds me of some of my friends who are doctors who love to claim they are middle class and have middle class professions like engineers or accountants.
The stats for these areas get skewed by the higher proportion of single and childless households. So they are technically below average. But not in any way that might imply actual struggle, in reality.
More to the point, it becomes really offensive to argue for their benefit at the expense of actually disadvantaged socioeconomic groups. This is where this place has a real champagne socialist bent to it. And also a blind spot to why those poors keep electing folks like the Fords. Treating them as disposable tends to engender resistance.
So you're addressing a strawman you put forward?
Happy you cleared it up.
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Northern Light
Superstar
Uhh, this was your argument:
You are clearly arguing that there are few or no people in the low or moderate income brackets in the applicable neighbourhood.
****
At any rate, the income of area residents is irrelevant to whether there are better uses for the land currently occupied by the airport.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I can't help it if you read into my post what I didn't say.