Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup

[kEiThZ]

If rail becomes competitive in the Corridor then all the parallel air services take a hit. The thing is, I think Porter's business model runs out of air before fast, frequent VIA is a reality, at which point the question becomes does AC/WS get that custom back at Pearson or do they fill the vacuum at YTZ.

Interesting question. If I had to guess, it would be Westjet buying Porter to establish itself in Toronto. Porter has at least proven that neglecting YTZ is dangerous. I'll bet Air Canada is wishing that they had at least maintained minimal Ottawa/Montreal service from YTZ. Not only has Porter sucked away customers, the third player has also depressed yield along in the TOM triangle.

I'm not too sure on the thesis that Porter tanks. How many passengers are really connecting at YTZ? However, the Ottawa and Montreal markets were profitable for them. Losing them to rail will definitely impact profits. Whether than can be made up with more US service is the question. That will determine whether Porter survives or not. But we're a long ways away from that discussion. Anything like VIA Fast only damages Toronto-Ottawa and Toronto-Windsor for them. They'll still have Montreal.

As for running out before rail picks up....people have been saying that for a while. Privately held. Unless you've seen the books, hard to say.

 

[kEiThZ]

Every taxpayer who enjoys spending time on the waterfront!!!!

I didn't realize that all of Toronto's waterfront was about the view between Strachan and Spadina. I can think of a few more interesting places along the waterfront....

Also, would these be the same taxpayers who also subsidized the destruction of views that rural residents complain about, with mandates for windfarms. Do you think rural residents should be allowed to opposed windfarms because their views are being spoiled? Or is your concern about views solely restricted to urban areas?

 

[rbt]

I'm not too sure on the thesis that Porter tanks. How many passengers are really connecting at YTZ?

I've known a few residents of Ottawa who used Porter about once a quarter and very rarely was their destination Toronto (mostly Chicago, Boston, or New York). Northern Ontario customers probably do this more frequently since their alternatives are limited.

As an anecdotal evidence based thumb-suck estimate I'd guess 15%.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Not necessarily related (anymore) but looks like the C- Series has gained certification for the Canadian Transport Agency

http://business.financialpost.com/n...green-light-for-service-from-transport-canada

 

[Playter]

The difference is that the downtown waterfront is the most unique and important public space we have in Toronto. The interested parties are far more than just the local residents.

Late to the dance but like Ports Toronto, the assumption seems to have been that the airplanes and any effects from them magically disappear west of the Etobicoke Creek. This has been a south Mississauga issue as well and I'll wager Porter operations affects me more than most of you.

This is the 'quiet' harbour residents could have expected if things had been approved
bit.ly/Cseries

 

[Playter]

I use to live right by the airport...probably the closest to the noise of any one. And guess what? I didn't mind it

As a kid, my family used to live next to the QEW (pre-soundwall). I didn't notice or mind it either. Felt quite a bit differently when I went back to visit years later (soundwall added in interim). Don't know how we tolerated it

Guess we can put up with all kinds of things. Doesn't mean we should, though

 

[ShonTron]

Interesting question. If I had to guess, it would be Westjet buying Porter to establish itself in Toronto. Porter has at least proven that neglecting YTZ is dangerous. I'll bet Air Canada is wishing that they had at least maintained minimal Ottawa/Montreal service from YTZ. Not only has Porter sucked away customers, the third player has also depressed yield along in the TOM triangle.

I'm not too sure on the thesis that Porter tanks. How many passengers are really connecting at YTZ? However, the Ottawa and Montreal markets were profitable for them. Losing them to rail will definitely impact profits. Whether than can be made up with more US service is the question. That will determine whether Porter survives or not. But we're a long ways away from that discussion. Anything like VIA Fast only damages Toronto-Ottawa and Toronto-Windsor for them. They'll still have Montreal.

As for running out before rail picks up....people have been saying that for a while. Privately held. Unless you've seen the books, hard to say.

Interesting. If WestJet buys Porter, it would then allow WestJet Encore to compete with AC Express (Jazz) on the Northern Ontario routes, ensuring that they continue to have a choice. I've flown Porter to Timmins and Sault Ste. Marie, and the planes that I flew on were (surprisingly) full.

If that happened, I might expect to see Encore move to Pearson, and YTZ operated solely for flights to Montreal, Ottawa, and possibly EWR/LGA.

 

[PinkLucy]

I used to regularly fly Northern Ontario routes; planes were routinely full, and that was years ago when fares were often $500. With Porter fares, flying is far more economical in terms of both time and money than driving -- throw in winter weather, and it's a steady market.

 

[allabootmatt]

I have heard anecdotally that Porter has huge brand loyalty in the northern towns it serves, because locals were fed up (understandably) with what they felt were exorbitant prices charged by AC and thrilled for the alternative. Additionally the Deluces are, originally, northerners -- if I recall correctly the family got its start in aviation with bush planes out of Timmins, which evolved eventually into AirOntario (now part of AC Express). They know the market, I suppose.

 

[TOareaFan]

 

[jcam]

You'd think Tourism Toronto could get a newer photograph than that.

 

[Armour]

It's only 20-25 years old.

 

[salsa]

Unfortunately the article is only for subscribers.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Unfortunately the article is only for subscribers.

Basically just an article about a rumour (which Porter denied)/open secret that Porter is actively looking for buyers.

AoD

 

[Playter]

Probably the worst-kept 'secret' in aviation