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Casaguy,

You also said, "I walked two blocks to the terminal and was warmly greeted by the Ferry operator who wisked me across to the main terminal before I even had a chance to enjoy the beautiful view and peaceful surroundings of the early morning on the lake."

Well, you used the words "peaceful surroundings." BINGO, you are the winner, you've just described why people are so attracted to the waterfront and why everyone makes such a darn fuss about it (i.e. revitalization, etc.) It is an escape from all the hustle and bustle of the big city. Indeed, when the TRWC promoted the closure of the south lanes of Queen's Quay last year, they advertised the waterfront as "the cottage in the city." So, you are in agreement with the TWRC. And with me.

So now you've got....peaceful surroundings mixed in with a busy commercial airport. Large planes taking off/landing and taxiing conflicts somewhat with the description, "peaceful surroundings."
 
I don't disagree at all.

A large part of my great experience was the stress free journey that happened before I even sat in my seat. Currently (I think) there is a balance with life on the lakeshore and a modern "world class city". Why on earth shouldn't you and I be able to go to Ottawa or Montreal or Halifax or New York City on a small plane from the foot of our city?

I most certainly do not want large planes taking off from the island every 2 minutes... I don't think anyone does. But realistically doesn't it make sense for a "world class city" to have a reasonable second option to YYZ?

These are not huge jet planes that Porter is flying. Someone said earlier in this thread that the obnoxious noise from motorcycles and "souped up cars" is far worse all over this city. I'd have to agree.

As far as the closure of part of Queen's Quay last summer... I LOVED it!

I was up early and biking worry-free across the bottom of Toronto.

So, yes, there is a conflict here. We all want peace but we also want convenience. I'm not sure of the exact solution. Maybe we should close the island airport and have all of its tenants use the airport across from Yorkdale Mall.

Actually... wait a minute... that kinda makes sense.
 
then had to go through security and was welcomed (YES, WELCOMED) by security personnel that clearly were using logic and common sense. (What a concept!)
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No way! ;)
 
In this case we can't have peace and convenience at the same time.

We have a great airport in Pearson and as a regular traveler on business, I find Pearson to be very convenient. Even in the worst traffic, it never takes more than 30 minutes to get there (without traffic, I can make it there in 15-20 minutes.) I fly to NYC 2-3 times per year and don't see the need whatsoever to fly out of the Island Airport.

The way I see it, we now have a convenient airport in Pearson and a great waterfront (or will be great in time.) I'd rather have that than 2 convenient airports (albeit one of them will only handle short-haul flights) and a noisy, ruined waterfront. In other words, the added benefit of Porter is no where large enough to offset the loss of any peace and tranquility that 14 million people enjoy each year on the waterfront.

Thanks for your comments....you are a reasonable, understanding person that respects other's views and I appreciate that. You've also helped me to put things in perspective.

I also loved the closure of the south lanes of Queen's Quay and like you I took advantage of it by riding my bike. I can't wait until they make it permanent (unless of course Porter drives me out of the harbourfront and to The Beach!)
 
I guess the crutch of my beef is that billions of dollars are being invested in a clean, livable, waterfront destination that we could all be proud of and enjoy. Now 600 feet from the shoreline is a commercial airport with aggressive expansion plans and which disrupts the quality of life by anyone who lives or enjoys spending time in the area.
I don't like people who ride bikes on sidewalks, I don't like aggressive cab drivers and I don't like the Island airport. Never will.
 
Casaguy, as wonderful as your experience sounds, it's rather like the suburban dream: it's great until everyone decides to live it, when it becomes a gridlocked smoggy disaster.

Porter is great as long as there's a handful of planes flying 40% full a few times a day. What happens when (if) they ramp up to a full fleet? Will the ferries handle the load? Will there still be shortbread in the lounge? Will the noise and pollution still be so intermittent?

What I'm trying to say is, it sounds lovely, and I might fly them myself soon. But it's just not scaleable.
 
... but again, Chuck mentioned the kicker. Porter airlines does not, and will not ever use Jet engines. Turbo props, are the quieter counterpart. In addition, they will not be flying when the vast majority of people will be sleeping. If you live in a residential highrise, you basically have to live with people making loud noises (depending on wall thickness) like loud music/in home entertainment systems that punch out a lot of base, so long as they cut it out by a reasonable hour before bedtime. Cars/streetcars/drunk weekend bar patrons are going to cause more noise for people living on downtown floors 2-5 that these turboprops.

Then again, I would love to see all islands residential leases expire without renewals, and the airport gone (all in one package - but not one without the other) and connect the islands with the waterfront to create one huge recreational organism.
 
Originally Posted by luvbrka
In other words, the added benefit of Porter is no where large enough to offset the loss of any peace and tranquility that 14 million people enjoy each year on the waterfront.


Based upon what calculation? How do you calculate the 'loss' of peace and tranquility? If peace and tranquility is your benchmark, then basically all downtown deveopment would not have enough benefit to offset this. I don't know about you, but myself, and many kids as well, marvel at being able to watch planes taking off, especially at some waterfront locations, the views are amazing. And 14 MM people won't all be affected, you would have to calculate the numbers of the 14 MM that actually will be in the waterfront vicinty where the noise would material, near the airport. As you said, 95% of waterfront condo owners do not hear the planes. The noise wouldn't be evenly distributed throughout the entire waterfront.
 
I think it would be a real shame to destroy what's left of the Island communities. I'll admit that I am jealous of the island residents in the summer, but it can't be that much fun in the winter!

Once the Toronto Islands are used to their full potential (and this means the end of YTZ), maybe then. In the meantime, save Ward's and Algonquin!
 
Based upon what calculation? How do you calculate the 'loss' of peace and tranquility?
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i know for example that planes are highly distracting during the popular music garden concerts. the planes will probably be annoying for those visiting ireland park (maybe hto, but less so).

i think the underlying problem is one of criteria and the measurement thereof. each user has his/her own interests, but none that can be mutually agreed upon. who's outranks who's? why?

another problem is that this issue requires a realistic idea of what else could be done with the land if it wasn't serving planes. there was a meeting (charrette?) last year to dream up other uses for the island airport. it was very well attended and some of the ideas were pretty neat.
 
mettle said:
i think the underlying problem is one of criteria and the measurement thereof. each user has his/her own interests, but none that can be mutually agreed upon. who's outranks who's? why?
.
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Bang, you hit it on the nose. You will never please everybody, theres no way to accurately measure the 'common good'.
 
The best way to measure is to have a vote. This vote could be for a specific issue or simply for local representation which shares your point of view. Oh wait, didn't some mayoral candidate campaign on working hard to fight against the airport? I wonder whatever happened to that guy.
 
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