Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup

[Bojaxs]

I think the cruising speed is a bit higher.

But does it make up for how slow to do anything at Pearson?

I've departed from Pearson four times since the start of this year. Security, baggage have been relatively quick.

I asked one of the CATSA agents why everything seems to be running so much smoother/faster and she said it seems like fewer people are flying this year.

This seems to be the case with all the other major airports in Canada. I've been through YVR, YCR, YEG, YHZ so far this year. YHZ had no lineup when I showed up at 8am. Stark difference from when I went through in 2022 and the security lineup stretched all the way to departures.

 

[stanko]

Has construction on the CBP pre-clearance facility begun yet?

 

[Rainforest]

I'd rather retain some competition in the form of BB. Plus, seeing the little cool planes taking off and landing is one of the downtown's attractions.

However, I don't want an extended runway, that would kind of dominate the waterfront.

If it can remain commercially viable in the current geometry, then it should keep going. If not then, sadly, it might have to be EOL.

 

[rbt]

I've departed from Pearson four times since the start of this year. Security, baggage have been relatively quick.

I asked one of the CATSA agents why everything seems to be running so much smoother/faster and she said it seems like fewer people are flying this year.

That's a fascinating response. Q1 2024 numbers at Pearson were up over Q1 2023 for both domestic (2.6%) and international (11.8%) passenger counts.

CATSA daily data updated to May 6th [multiple airports combined, not just Pearson] also shows most days have higher passenger counts than 2023.

Screened passenger data - CATSA

www.catsa-acsta.gc.ca

 

[Bojaxs]

That's a fascinating response. Q1 2024 numbers at Pearson were up over Q1 2023 for both domestic (2.6%) and international (11.8%) passenger counts.

CATSA daily data updated to May 6th [multiple airports combined, not just Pearson] also shows most days have higher passenger counts than 2023.

Screened passenger data - CATSA

www.catsa-acsta.gc.ca

I've only been flying domestic this year out of terminal 3. I'm not seeing any long lineups like I did pre-covid and during covid.

 

[SubHuman]

I've departed from Pearson four times since the start of this year. Security, baggage have been relatively quick.

I asked one of the CATSA agents why everything seems to be running so much smoother/faster and she said it seems like fewer people are flying this year.

This seems to be the case with all the other major airports in Canada. I've been through YVR, YCR, YEG, YHZ so far this year. YHZ had no lineup when I showed up at 8am. Stark difference from when I went through in 2022 and the security lineup stretched all the way to departures.

The problems with long line-ups, etc., were mostly about staffing shortages at the time, with presumably more people being hired and trained since then.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/toronto-pearson-airport-delays-1.6534360

The thought expressed by some then, that having more traffic at YTZ would have improved the situation, seemed nonsensical. There would have just been two under-staffed airports.

 

[rbt]

I've only been flying domestic this year out of terminal 3. I'm not seeing any long lineups like I did pre-covid and during covid.

I agree that lines are moving well: they've clearly become more efficient or scaled up in some way.

 

[milkycontent]

From the Toronto Board of Trade report on Unlocking the Waterfront:

RIPPLE EFFECT: Unlocking Toronto's Waterfront Potential

Drawing on global best practices, this report looks at opportunities and priorities for unlocking the full value of Toronto’s waterfront.

bot.com

Billy Bishop Generates $2.1B in GDP and over 4000 jobs.

The question to ask about this is: How much of that GDP/jobs would be lost if the airlines move their operations to Pearson? Does Pearson have capacity to absorb those trips, and if so would that economic impact remain, but just arrive via Pearson?
What about the potential GDP/jobs impact of other potential uses of that land? Even in you lost 25% of the economic impact by moving the trips to Pearson, could a big destination on the central waterfront make up for that or even exceed it?

These types of numbers seem huge, but they need to be put in context of alternative uses.

 

[rdaner]

Thanks for posting! Leaving off the date of $ generated is on purpose. I wonder why? Going down each year?

 

[Bojaxs]

I used to fly with Porter to Halifax out of BB. But now that Porter got the new Embraer jets and flies out of Pearson, I can't really see myself ever using BB again.

I could be wrong but it felt like the Embraers got me to Halifax quicker than the Dash-8s.

Well I guess I spoke too soon. My employer asked me to go to Moncton in July, and since Porter doesn't fly to Moncton out of Pearson, it looks like I'm going to be going to Billy Bishop again.

Could have chosen Air Canada out of Pearson, but had to make sure I booked the more affordable option so as to satisfy my employer when they reimburse me for the flight.

 

[milkycontent]

With a "fixed link to the islands" in the news--

I submit my napkin proposal.

Anybody know if you could build a bridge that a streetcar could climb high enough for sailboats to cross under with that much runway? The tankers can use the Eastern Gap. You could even (one day) run a streetcar line all the way to Wards.

 

[generalcanada]

With a "fixed link to the islands" in the news--

I submit my napkin proposal.

View attachment 575193

Anybody know if you could build a bridge that a streetcar could climb high enough for sailboats to cross under with that much runway? The tankers can use the Eastern Gap. You could even (one day) run a streetcar line all the way to Wards.

 

[Northern Light]

With a "fixed link to the islands" in the news--

I submit my napkin proposal.

View attachment 575193

Anybody know if you could build a bridge that a streetcar could climb high enough for sailboats to cross under with that much runway? The tankers can use the Eastern Gap. You could even (one day) run a streetcar line all the way to Wards.

Housing on the airport lands would not only face a lot of opposition, it would be wildly complicated and expensive.

There are significant remediation issues for airport land, on top of which the islands are at significant risk from high lake levels/floods, suggesting a need to raise the grade of the land and harden shorelines.

That's not to say all of that couldn't be done, but it likely would be particularly affordable or even medium term.

****

I don't know what height sail boat masts can reach for practical purposes in the Western Gap, but I know that masts taller than 18M require notification to Airport Traffic Control.

The maximum grade for a Flexity Outlook (Toronto) is 8%

Using that information you can calculate the required rise over run here:

Elevation Grade Calculator

Elevation grade calculator determines the grade or slope of a specific earthen area, given its "rise" and "run".

www.omnicalculator.com

 

[milkycontent]

Housing on the airport lands would not only face a lot of opposition, it would be wildly complicated and expensive.

There are significant remediation issues for airport land, on top of which the islands are at significant risk from high lake levels/floods, suggesting a need to raise the grade of the land and harden shorelines.

That's not to say all of that couldn't be done, but it likely would be particularly affordable or even medium term.

Acknowledged! This should be looked at as the next Villiers Island/Lower Don Lands project. We need a vision of what could be!

I don't know what height sail boat masts can reach for practical purposes in the Western Gap, but I know that masts taller than 18M require notification to Airport Traffic Control.

The maximum grade for a Flexity Outlook (Toronto) is 8%

Using that information you can calculate the required rise over run here:

Elevation Grade Calculator

Elevation grade calculator determines the grade or slope of a specific earthen area, given its "rise" and "run".

www.omnicalculator.com

Based on the 18m clearance and 8% grade, you'd need 225m to get that high, which is juuuuust over the distance from Queens Quay to the dockwall. Still plenty of room for boats to navigate through.
Of course this is super simplified, but it seems like it's close enough that it would be worth *considering* as a *potential* option.

And also just to note: I will be ignoring the haters. We'll never do anything good if we don't dream big.