CanadianNational
Senior Member
Peepers:
Woodbridge_Heights:
Well, Peepers, you raise good points. I really shouldn't post when I'm so grouchy, I do look like quite a cow.
I knew the airport had been achieving some regularity since the 80's, but if I remember correctly, by the time Miller was coming around, the whole thing felt like it was dying on the vine. I don't think it was turning much of a profit - hence the Port Authority cranking things things up. You're right about there not being much around Bathurst Quay in 1984, but it's not like the area had been off the development radar. Trudeau announced the area from York to Bathurst south of Queen's Quay as residential development ready around 1972, and got Harbourfront Centre rolling. Arguably the city and the Port Authority have always been at loggerheads, each building irregularly against each other - sometimes for, sometimes against. Ontario Place went in before regular service (courtesy of government funding), and not expecting any. HarbourCity was proposed in the late 1960's (wiping the aiport off the map and relocating it on what is now the Leslie Spit), and but it was only a couple years later that plans started popping up for serious development of Queen's Quay as a residential spot and tourist attraction.
I approved of Miller's stand against a bridge, and it was the biggest first sourball of his career when he waffled and said that he didn't rule out a tunnel. Again, it wasn't just the bridge that was an issue - it was the ever-returning issue of airport expansion that had been going on irregularly for decades. Also more than that - a lot of people were looking for airport shrinkage. Nothing was happening on the vast Pickering lands, and a small airport there didn't seem out of line. Buttonville had opened in the decades since - and why not there? Hamilton, too.
It doesn't have to be the exact replica of the island airport of course, but rather a moving of it's services to already capable areas, or to areas not as sensitive.
Porter wasn't exactly an ideal tenant from the get-go, with a barely concealed expansionist agenda. Normal for businesses, but not so great for rare port-parkland areas. First they wouldn't rule out a larger ferry, then of course came the surprise razing and enlarging of the terminal, and the new ferry, and now the tunnel and now the jets, etc. 'The Toronto Port Authority confirmed on September 12, 2008, that Porter Airlines was fined for breaking noise curfews in its operations at the Island Airport' (wikipedia) which hasn't been endearing.
So - of course this thing has a tangled history, and no one's hands are exactly clean. But in the spirit of making deals and agreements, the prospect of a deal being struck that would see the airport's capacity moved elsewhere and the harbour made entire, was not impossible. It certainly seemed possible at the onset of the Miller years.
On a side note, as others have said, we don't know about Porter's profits. Are they really doing well?
PanOntario:
I think you need to familiarize yourself with the history of the airport.
Regularly scheduled commercial service began in 1984 with CityExpress Airlines using four engine "Dash 7's" (much noisier than today's Q-400's).
David Miller was elected in 2003, i.e. when Miller came to office the Island Airport had been in continued commercial service with regularly scheduled carriers for almost 20 years (of course the airport itself had been in existence decades before that. During WW2 the Norwegian Air Force used the airport as a training base which is why the park nearby is called "Little Norway").
In 1984 when regularly scheduled commercial service began there were no co-op's or condo's in the area of Bathhurst Quay instead it was one big open public park. Ironically the residents of what was once a public park want the airport to be turned into a park for their enjoyment.
I don't see any merit in turning the airport into a public park that can be "rejoined" with the rest of the Island. I think if that were to happen we would see the demise of the Island Ferries as the tunnel would become the sole access point to the Islands. Without the ferries the Islands would lose a big part of their magical quality and just become another city park.
Woodbridge_Heights:
Show me where an airport can be built brand new in Toronto without having massive protests. Pickering has shown that a new airport will face protests an order of magnitude greater than what we are seeing against the Island airport.
Why can't we use an existing asset? It's not like Porter/Island airport isn't making an (alleged) profit.
Well, Peepers, you raise good points. I really shouldn't post when I'm so grouchy, I do look like quite a cow.
I knew the airport had been achieving some regularity since the 80's, but if I remember correctly, by the time Miller was coming around, the whole thing felt like it was dying on the vine. I don't think it was turning much of a profit - hence the Port Authority cranking things things up. You're right about there not being much around Bathurst Quay in 1984, but it's not like the area had been off the development radar. Trudeau announced the area from York to Bathurst south of Queen's Quay as residential development ready around 1972, and got Harbourfront Centre rolling. Arguably the city and the Port Authority have always been at loggerheads, each building irregularly against each other - sometimes for, sometimes against. Ontario Place went in before regular service (courtesy of government funding), and not expecting any. HarbourCity was proposed in the late 1960's (wiping the aiport off the map and relocating it on what is now the Leslie Spit), and but it was only a couple years later that plans started popping up for serious development of Queen's Quay as a residential spot and tourist attraction.
I approved of Miller's stand against a bridge, and it was the biggest first sourball of his career when he waffled and said that he didn't rule out a tunnel. Again, it wasn't just the bridge that was an issue - it was the ever-returning issue of airport expansion that had been going on irregularly for decades. Also more than that - a lot of people were looking for airport shrinkage. Nothing was happening on the vast Pickering lands, and a small airport there didn't seem out of line. Buttonville had opened in the decades since - and why not there? Hamilton, too.
It doesn't have to be the exact replica of the island airport of course, but rather a moving of it's services to already capable areas, or to areas not as sensitive.
Porter wasn't exactly an ideal tenant from the get-go, with a barely concealed expansionist agenda. Normal for businesses, but not so great for rare port-parkland areas. First they wouldn't rule out a larger ferry, then of course came the surprise razing and enlarging of the terminal, and the new ferry, and now the tunnel and now the jets, etc. 'The Toronto Port Authority confirmed on September 12, 2008, that Porter Airlines was fined for breaking noise curfews in its operations at the Island Airport' (wikipedia) which hasn't been endearing.
So - of course this thing has a tangled history, and no one's hands are exactly clean. But in the spirit of making deals and agreements, the prospect of a deal being struck that would see the airport's capacity moved elsewhere and the harbour made entire, was not impossible. It certainly seemed possible at the onset of the Miller years.
On a side note, as others have said, we don't know about Porter's profits. Are they really doing well?
PanOntario:
Nope. Near College and Yonge.I wonder where you live... You must live right across from the airport to be making such comments.