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Baby, we got a bubble!?

http://www.thestar.com/business/rea...st_signal_that_housing_market_is_cooling.html

Drop in housing starts latest signal that housing market is cooling
By:Susan PiggBusiness Reporter, Published on Wed May 08 2013

Construction of new houses and condos slumped almost six per cent across Ontario and eight per cent across the GTA in April over March in the face of softening home sales.

The most dramatic downturn has been in the high-rise condo sector, where new construction starts across the GTA were down some 73 per cent in April, to 1,259 new units from the record 4,716 starts a year earlier, according to statistics released by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation Wednesday.

Across the country, starts are now hitting levels of close to 175,000 for this year, but economists expect that number to keep dropping.

“Housing has been a tailwind for the Canadian economy for most of the past decade, now it’s becoming a headwind,†says Sal Guatieri, senior economist with BMO Capital Markets, who expects to see national starts drop to an average of 175,000 new units this year, and decline further to 170,000 in 2014.

That compares to construction starts that have averaged 215,000 new units a year since the recession, far outpacing population growth and family formation requirements of about 185,000 new units, said Guatieri.

“We see this cooling as a very healthy development since there was overbuilding in some segments of the market, like the Toronto condo market, which could have posed a real problem to the economy if it continued.â€

Ontario was on pace in April to record some 55,875 starts this year, down from the 59,422 expected just as of March, according to average seasonally adjusted numbers compiled by CMHC.

Much of the chill came from the GTA where the condo market has cooled considerably since last summer: Although a record 64,800 new high-rise condos, semis and townhomes are currently under construction, developers are holding back on new launches and condos sales across the GTA were down 55 per cent in the first quarter of 2013 compared to a year earlier, according to market research firm Urbanation.

Housing starts in the 416 and 905 regions that CMHC had expected as of March to average 36,788 this year, were down to an expected 33,820 units as of end of April, says CMHC.

“We’re going to see a significant impact as housing starts continue to move downward,†noted economist Will Dunning, who watches the housing market closely on behalf of mortgage brokers, who continue to blame the downturn largely on Ottawa’s imposition of tighter mortgage lending rules.

As of the end of 2013, thanks to a decade-long housing boom, residential construction accounted for 6.9 per cent of Gross Domestic Product, notes Guatieri, well above historic norms of 5.7 per cent.

That’s seen the creation of almost 5,000 new jobs a year across the country, a number that is likely to decline significantly as both sales and starts continue their decline.
 
I'd like to see the intra-migration numbers to Toronto.

Economic Dashboard – Annual Summary, 2013 ...

"Over the last ten years, net international immigration to the City of Toronto has declined from 60,000 people per year to 46,000 people; however, that decrease has been more than offset by a very significant decrease in the rate of intra-provincial out-migration. Ten years ago, 75,000 more people moved from the City of Toronto to elsewhere in Ontario, than moved from the rest of Ontario to the City each year. By 2012, that figure had fallen to 23,000 people (on a net basis). The other two components of population change are: net inter-provincial migration which is negligible and natural increase (births minus deaths) which has been holding steady."

http://www1.toronto.ca/staticfiles/...ent_and_culture/docs/backgroundfile-56336.pdf
 
It absolutely makes no sense to buy pre-construction condos as the prices are usually higher than resale (with hidden costs) and there is quite amount of resale units (never lived in, brand new) that are on the market already.
 
Developers need to focus on mid rise condos/loft conversions and townhouses instead. These are in demand and much needed in trendy neighbourhoods.
 
Except the financial reason of 'buy now and pay later'. From an investment standpoint, you place a 15% deposit to hold a $300K worth of equity.

So if a $300K unit sells for $360K when it completes, your $45K deposit gives you a sizable $40K-$50K return. A 100% return.

I'm just stating the principle, not saying this is actually what happens, but this is the formula.

It absolutely makes no sense to buy pre-construction condos as the prices are usually higher than resale (with hidden costs) and there is quite amount of resale units (never lived in, brand new) that are on the market already.
 
Totally agree. However I guess these projects dont return the same kind of margin condo high rises give them. Also, the price points are much higher, making it less accessible.

I live in a hard loft and I'm loving it.

Developers need to focus on mid rise condos/loft conversions and townhouses instead. These are in demand and much needed in trendy neighbourhoods.
 
Except the financial reason of 'buy now and pay later'. From an investment standpoint, you place a 15% deposit to hold a $300K worth of equity.

So if a $300K unit sells for $360K when it completes, your $45K deposit gives you a sizable $40K-$50K return. A 100% return.

I'm just stating the principle, not saying this is actually what happens, but this is the formula.

But that $300k unit is over inflated in this current market. When a comparable resale unit might sell for $280k. I doubt the preconstruction condo will sell for $360k in 3 to 4 yrs from now (assuming this is a unit in a high rise condo).
 
Totally agree. However I guess these projects dont return the same kind of margin condo high rises give them. Also, the price points are much higher, making it less accessible.

I live in a hard loft and I'm loving it.

I too live in a conversion loft and it is totally worth the premium!
 
No one has the crystal ball. Based on historical data, it's feasible. But with high risk of course. And so is any type of investment. Except the chance of having a $300K unit go under $280K in 5 years is much more unlikely. So you maximum risk is -$20K. Much smaller than stock market or even mutual funds. That's why its still the safest investment.

But that $300k unit is over inflated in this current market. When a comparable resale unit might sell for $280k. I doubt the preconstruction condo will sell for $360k in 3 to 4 yrs from now (assuming this is a unit in a high rise condo).
 
No one has the crystal ball. Based on historical data, it's feasible. But with high risk of course. And so is any type of investment. Except the chance of having a $300K unit go under $280K in 5 years is much more unlikely. So you maximum risk is -$20K. Much smaller than stock market or even mutual funds. That's why its still the safest investment.

I am curious to know if sleazy developers price in future gains in the cost of the precon units.
 
I'm sure they do. They make projections and then scale back and leave some room for profit, so the projects would still appeal to buyers and investors. Typically if the projected price at completion is X number of dollars per sq ft, and the current resale is Y, the pre-construction will be priced between X and Y.

I am curious to know if sleazy developers price in future gains in the cost of the precon units.
 
No one has the crystal ball. Based on historical data, it's feasible. But with high risk of course. And so is any type of investment. Except the chance of having a $300K unit go under $280K in 5 years is much more unlikely. So you maximum risk is -$20K. Much smaller than stock market or even mutual funds. That's why its still the safest investment.

seriously !?!?!
you don't think a $300K unit can go under $280K in 5 years? that's only a loss of 7%.
 

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