News   Jul 12, 2024
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News   Jul 12, 2024
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News   Jul 12, 2024
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Baby, we got a bubble!?

RBC just raised rates... again. The new posted 5-year fixed rate is 6.1%, starting with RBC tomorrow. This means that as of next week, people seeking out a new mortgages will have to qualify at 6.1%, instead of the 5.25% just two weeks ago, regardless of the actual rate they're setting up the mortgage with.

That should put a bit of a damper on home prices, eventually at least.
 
Interest rates up .9% in two weeks and also, bucking the national trend, Toronto's Home Price Index was down .7% in February. It's starting people - it's starting...and this is without the huge condo inventory even coming to market yet...sheesh - this could get worse than I thought.
 
Interest rates up .9% in two weeks and also, bucking the national trend, Toronto's Home Price Index was down .7% in February. It's starting people - it's starting...and this is without the huge condo inventory even coming to market yet...sheesh - this could get worse than I thought.

This could be good news for potential first-time homebuyers who don't have to sell or maybe even people trading up.
 
That's great news for me. So you guys reckon that 3Q 2010 is when prices will bottom-up and that is when to buy? ...or will prices go even lower?
 
Interest rates up .9% in two weeks and also, bucking the national trend, Toronto's Home Price Index was down .7% in February. It's starting people - it's starting...and this is without the huge condo inventory even coming to market yet...sheesh - this could get worse than I thought.

Each 1% increase supposedly adds about 19% to the average mortgage payment. Of course there has to be an adjustment. Whether a drop or plateauing for a few years was always in the cards.

Simuls, ask yourself a question. Have we recovered to where we were before the 2008 huge fallout in the US and around the world. I would suggest the answer is "no". Home prices dropped about 10-15% in Toronto at the height of nervousness and now are higher than they were before all this happened. Low interest rates, HST, change in mortgage rules pulled forward alot of demand and until now had people feeling pressured to beat the deadlines.

Now that the deadlines are almost upon us, interest rates are rising, the recovery while showing signs of strengthening by all accounts we are not out of the woods yet. And, despite this, prices are higher than they were before we became aware of the problems around the world. Prior to the "implosion", everyone was confident and things going well, and now house prices are higher despite tepid good news at best and less than full consumer confidence.

When the money taps are turned off, and everyone (governments/corporate and consumer borrowing) needs to pay for all the money that has been poured into the system, and the government has to cut back, confidence will again be questioned and prices cannot go up in that environment and I believe may retest the lows back in March of 2009(at least in Toronto). Add to it as you correctly point out a glut of condos coming, expect house prices and rents both to drop (again not a huge drop off: 10 to 20% max I believe).

The days of interest rate hikes arrivals were always known expected. None the less, it is still a shock when one sees/hears of it. It is just the pace of increase which is eye opening but let's not panic. For all the reasons that I described above, the interest rates cannot and likely will not continue at the rate of increase seen in the past 2 weeks (0.85% on 5 year mortgages), otherwise the economy would be choked off and interest rates again head downwards.
 
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For what it's worth

I track the upper end of the Toronto housing market. In the past week alone I have noted an 11% spike in listings and far more off market deal chatter from my various sources. There are way more off market deals out there than you would think. I believe this is relevant data but the number is rather small so spikes can be somewhat misleading I suppose. Anecdotally, I also continue to see upper end properties (houses and condos) remaining unsold on MLS for extended periods which leads me to believe that the high end market has totally stalled. Granted there are some that have sold but I recognize many listing as permanent fixture on the MLS for what appears to have been many months. It is quite humorous to see some of the tricks that agents play to get their listing noticed. They re-list at a nominally different price so that the listing doesn't appear stale and they change photos periodically to give the appearance of a new listings. Tricks of the trade.

Time will tell...
 
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Headlines in the Globe and Mail today. Essentially market has peaked with record numbers of listings. It is only now a matter of a few months before the flood of listings exceeds the demand and prices stall or begin a downward trend. For the condo market in downtown TO, the additional product to come on line in 2011-2013 will only aggravate the problem and drive down prices and rents.

Incidently and anectdotally, to CN Tower's last post: In Oakville, I notice alot of signs going up and a much longer lag to sold signs now. Two months ago, everything was pretty well gone within 2-3 weeks. Now, just see more and more for sale signs with fewer sold signs.
 
I track the upper end of the Toronto housing market. In the past week alone I have noted an 11% spike in listings and far more off market deal chatter from my various sources. There are way more off market deals out there than you would think. I believe this is relevant data but the number is rather small so spikes can be somewhat misleading I suppose. Anecdotally, I also continue to see upper end properties (houses and condos) remaining unsold on MLS for extended periods which leads me to believe that the high end market has totally stalled. Granted there are some that have sold but I recognize many listing as permanent fixture on the MLS for what appears to have been many months. It is quite humorous to see some of the tricks that agents play to get their listing noticed. They re-list at a nominally different price so that the listing doesn't appear stale and they change photos periodically to give the appearance of a new listings. Tricks of the trade.

Time will tell...
Well, I've seen high end Toronto houses on MLS that are still there from 2007. I think they got a little ahead of themselves and had listing prices probably initially 15-20% too high. For example, this house in Scarborough on the lakefront was listed for $1.98 million in 2007. It's 2010 now and it's listed at $1.7 million... and is still unsold.

Actually, I think $1.7 mil or a bit less is reasonable for that property (at least if the pictures are anything to go by), but I wonder if it's got the old-listing-never-sells syndrome now... seeing as it's sat there for 3 years.

Speaking of million dollar homes... Here's a funny quiz game based on outrageous Vancouver detached home MLS listing from 2010.

Crack House or Mansion

Note that average detached home prices in Vancouver are now over $1 million.
 

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