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Baby, we got a bubble!?

PinkLucy said:
When looking for condos to rent recently, yes, we saw some 500 sq ft condos that rented for $1500 -- at Maple Leaf Square for example. Depressing isn't it? We ended up getting one in an older building that's almost 700 sq ft ... for $1500 all-in.

We were actually looking for 2 bdrm at the time. Good luck finding something decent downtown for $1500 -- we found some, but they were gross, nasty, bedbug-infested apartment buildings. For 2 bedroom, we ended up finding decent stuff in the $1800-$1900 range, so at that price point, it really makes sense to split the rent and go for the 2 bedroom. The problem though is finding them -- there's tons of one bedrooms to pick from, a lot fewer 2's.
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We had the same experience three years ago. We eventually settled on a St Clair Ave W 800 sq ft 2 bedroom unit for 1400$ all inclusive (incl parking) but it was in an older building that would likely be considered 'dingy' comapred to the new condo-esque standards that people seem to have for apartments these days. When we went to get a three-bedroom in anticipation of our growing family it was so expensive (not-inclusive: 1800$ + in old apartment buildings, 2000$+ for a condo/house/flats) we ended up buying a house instead.

The rental market for 2+ bedroom condos/apartments/flats/houses is really tough.
 
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I have around 625 sq. ft. 1 bedroom in downtown in a 5 year old building. Great layout. Hardwood, stainless steel appliances, granite, marble baths,Currently 2 offers on it with a 3rd showing tonight. It will go for full offer at $1525+untilities for March 1, 2011. So yes, at present, this is the market. Newer condos do ask $1500 for 500 sq.ft. We have no pool but a gym and outside areas and other amenites.

$1800 will be a 730-800 sq.ft. bedroom I would think and likely outside the main core if relatively new. That is just barely entry level for condos though apartments are cheaper (but much older though roomier).
 
those rental rates are surprisingly high, but still cheaper than the total monthly outlays of buying/owning these condo units. Does anyone disagree?

As an owner of multi-unit res property, I can attest that rental rates have not moved much over the past 9 years, at least for my property.
 
I agree at todays prices ponyboy that one can't make the numbers add up. The rent I have averaged has been between $1450-$1525 over the past 5 years on this property.
Rents are virtually unchanged in 10 years. (Up/down 10% depending on supply/demand).
 
ponyboy said:
those rental rates are surprisingly high, but still cheaper than the total monthly outlays of buying/owning these condo units. Does anyone disagree?

As an owner of multi-unit res property, I can attest that rental rates have not moved much over the past 9 years, at least for my property.
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From my experience and what i've seen, rental rates for the typical average new construction < 5 years old is $27-30 PSF/year with the rare exception as high as $36 PSF/year (which i can't comprehend such as MLS except for RE hype, but i haven't seen the actual leased rates)
 
This rental issue is really fascinating to me, as I have just currently bought an investment property. 30 cents PSF sounds really steep to me. There seem to be stats out there indicating that apartment rentals are MUCH cheaper than condos. Is this because of the lack of amenities or just by the fact that they don't have the shiny appliances and new builds? I guess it comes down to the question of what is an apartment and what is a condo? And given location will get the premium in terms of rent, how much variation in rents can you expect for a condo say at Yonge and Bloor vs the same sized condo and similar interiors and amenities say in Cabbagetown, Regent Park or Queen West? What is the gold standard?
 
I don't know about the waterfront. I am looking at downtown core.

I would not be suprised however because the waterfront downtown about 5-8 years ago had alot of product and rents were actually under pressure so I would bet they have just recovered as the excess supply got mopped up.

I don't think there is alot of difference between waterfront and comparable nice condos in the core though a water view especially direct waterview is a limited resource and likely commands a premium.
 
Asian Collussus
I think you meant $30/sq.ft., not 30 cents because that would not be steep. In fact if you would like to rent me your new condo at 30 cents/sq. ft., I suspect I will take it (even site unseen) LOL
Apartments with few exceptions are 30 years old, lack amenities of newer condos. Not all but a large number. One gets footage and distribution of the footage differently. The rooms tend to bigger, the bathrooms smaller (a function of design of the times). Kitchens which alot of people say is the most important room tend to be nicer if smaller in newer condos.

Rent varies according to location, building quality, access to subway, downtown, amenities etc. so there really is no gold standard.

I think people generally on the forum have been mainly focused on the downtown core.
 
interested said:
Asian Collussus
I think you meant $30/sq.ft., not 30 cents because that would not be steep. In fact if you would like to rent me your new condo at 30 cents/sq. ft., I suspect I will take it (even site unseen) LOL
Apartments with few exceptions are 30 years old, lack amenities of newer condos. Not all but a large number. One gets footage and distribution of the footage differently. The rooms tend to bigger, the bathrooms smaller (a function of design of the times). Kitchens which alot of people say is the most important room tend to be nicer if smaller in newer condos.

Rent varies according to location, building quality, access to subway, downtown, amenities etc. so there really is no gold standard.

I think people generally on the forum have been mainly focused on the downtown core.
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My bad interested! 30 dollars of course LOL...I'm tired and my dollars and cents are out of whack...
I bought a condo in the Regent Park area and location wise it is about 1.5 km from the Eaton Centre. But whether it can shake its abysmal reputation of the neighbourhood and whether there are renters out there, I will soon find out.
I have no delusions that I willl get top dollar for my unit. However, I'm impressed by the build by Daniels and it is 750 square feet. Which would mean 2250 in the 30 dollar calculation. Grant it I don't have parking and amenities, so even so I think from my search on line so far, I'm thinking 1400 to 1500. At that point I'd be cash flow positive.
However, if I do have problems renting after registration, I think I may consider selling. We'll see...
 
asiancolossus said:
My bad interested! 30 dollars of course LOL...I'm tired and my dollars and cents are out of whack...
I bought a condo in the Regent Park area and location wise it is about 1.5 km from the Eaton Centre. But whether it can shake its abysmal reputation of the neighbourhood and whether there are renters out there, I will soon find out.
I have no delusions that I willl get top dollar for my unit. However, I'm impressed by the build by Daniels and it is 750 square feet. Which would mean 2250 in the 30 dollar calculation. Grant it I don't have parking and amenities, so even so I think from my search on line so far, I'm thinking 1400 to 1500. At that point I'd be cash flow positive.
However, if I do have problems renting after registration, I think I may consider selling. We'll see...
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This is an example of how per square foot rental calculations are guidelines only. $2250 to rent in Regent Park is... ambitious.
 
Yeah, $30 per sq. ft. represents rentals of higher end units.

When I bought my condo, I picked one with the least possible amount of amenities and in King West before the full yuppification, simply because I didn't want to pay for those amenities or the yuppification tax. Rentals in the complex were comparatively cheap too, not surprisingly. Meanwhile, my friend on the waterfront had a condo only marginally larger but with a 270 degree lake view, squash courts, contiguous indoor and outdoor pool, downtown shuttlebus, full gym, rental apts for visitors, you name it. I'd guess the rentals there were $500 more per month, 10 years ago.
 
asiancolossus said:
My bad interested! 30 dollars of course LOL...I'm tired and my dollars and cents are out of whack...
I bought a condo in the Regent Park area and location wise it is about 1.5 km from the Eaton Centre. But whether it can shake its abysmal reputation of the neighbourhood and whether there are renters out there, I will soon find out.
I have no delusions that I willl get top dollar for my unit. However, I'm impressed by the build by Daniels and it is 750 square feet. Which would mean 2250 in the 30 dollar calculation. Grant it I don't have parking and amenities, so even so I think from my search on line so far, I'm thinking 1400 to 1500. At that point I'd be cash flow positive.
However, if I do have problems renting after registration, I think I may consider selling. We'll see...
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i'm glad to hear that $1400-1500 would put you in positive cash flow because some quick research on MLS gave me a few listings in the cusp of Regent Park near River/Dundas @ Tannery Lofts which have 10-13 ft ceilings and warehouse features.

the rental rates there are $24 PSF/year, so your 750SF unit might provide you $1500 max provided it's well laid out, etc.
although your unit has plenty of storage, i don't know how that will factor into potential renters idea of usuable space that they're willing to pay for .. $2250/m is very unlikely to occur for another 15 years
 
nhincompoop said:
This is an example of how per square foot rental calculations are guidelines only. $2250 to rent in Regent Park is... ambitious.
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I'd say ambitious is a bit of an understatement. I'm currently at the Vu in. A 750 sq ft 1+1 with 200sq foot terrace for $1600 a month. That includes parking.

I'd think without parking you'd be looking at 1,300-1,400 tops.
 
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