Atheists hope (don't pray) to bring ads to Toronto (G&M)

[qwerty]

Actually, Einstein "believed" in the laws of nature - such as those of physics. He was hardly a believer of religious faith or god in the conventional sense. If anything, he was making reference to the fact that the universe appears rational and comprehensible.

I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.
Albert Einstein

...never said he was religious (we're not talking religion) -but definitely an atheist he w'aint.

 

[Hydrogen]

I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds.

Essentially, what he is saying is that he does not know. So slot him under the label of agnostic.

Of course, one must raise the question of "so what"? Does the prospect for a belief in god get legitimized because Albert Einstein may or may not have had some loosely formed notion of such an idea? What makes his form of an absence of direct knowledge any more special than that of anyone else?

Einstein was a physicist, but none of his research in physics showed any direct proof of god. With respect to that topic, he was expressing a personal opinion - which is fine. But let's not confuse his ability in physics as providing him with any unique insight into the existence or the nature of god.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.
Albert Einstein

...never said he was religious (we're not talking religion) -but definitely an atheist he w'aint.

historically, i have said that i believed in god so i must not be an atheist because of what i said once upon a time. just like jesus' mom, it don't matter she had jesus' siblings the good ole fashioned way (penis in vagina). she's still the virgin mary because she was a virgin at one time!


also, if someone was 50 years old, would you say they were 25 just because they were one time?


p.s, since einstein was a really smart guy, everything he says must be true? right? even two statements that contradict each other must both be true? right? because a really smart guy said them, right?

 

[qwerty]

But let's not confuse his ability in physics as providing him with any unique insight into the existence or the nature of god.

True . It was my choice refer to (and defer to) someone of international note, universally accepted intelligent, fairly unbiased, disinterested.
Personally i find this 'pragmatic' type of person as most insightful in these matters. Sure, there may be better people to cite.

Pepperoni da Supremo, im not saying you're a dummy...
-i believe in you.

 

[CDL.TO]

Saw my first ad on the subway today.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Saw my first ad on the subway today.

where have you been all your life? north korea?

p.s, would anyone like to join the proselytizing efforts by handing out blank sheets of paper?

 

[khris]

Take a photo the next time you see an ad

 

[urbandreamer]

1 March 2009 signs of g-d

I spotted this ad, and realized: who cares? I'm not offended, it's just another ad.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

thanks for the pic urbandreamer

 

[khris]

Sweet thanks for posting that pic!

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

in the news:

Religious groups counter atheist bus ads

Updated: Tue Mar. 03 2009 10:48:23 AM


ctvtoronto.ca

There's probably no God.

That message has been the talk of the town in Canadian cities after an atheist group posted the sign on the side of several buses in Toronto and Calgary.

The sign, which also urges people to "stop worrying and enjoy their life" has caused an intense debate between religious groups and the Freethought Association of Canada, the organization who paid for the advertisements.

Some religious groups have even responded by putting up their own signs to counter the atheist ads but officials with Freethought say there's nothing offensive about their message.

"We're not going to be very careful around people like that, we're not going to walk on egg shells anymore because that's what atheists have done for centuries and that's not acceptable," Freethought president Justin Trottier said. "People are so set in their ways that they can't allow for the fact that there's an atheist organization in existence. That's their problem, not mine."

Trottier said the advertising campaign is a way to give atheists a voice.

"We're not after public money. We're after a seat at the table and access to public space, just like everybody else," he told CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday.

Trottier said the ads are meant to attract people who already don't believe a God exists, those that consider themselves atheist, agnostic or humanist.

"If they come from a position of skepticism and doubt, we want them to embrace that," he said. "Rethinking your beliefs can actually be very healthy in an open democracy like Canada."

He cited a recent poll, which found about 20 per cent of Canadians don't believe in a higher power.

Iman Syed Sohawardy, from the Islamic Supreme Council of Canada, said his group launched a counter campaign to present the public with a balanced perspective.

He told Canada AM that he's particularly concerned about young children who are just beginning to read and who are too innocent to think about the subject critically.

Sohawardy also said that the atheist ads have brought religious people closer to God by reminding them of their beliefs.

"It (tries to) show people who don't believe in God are less worried than those who do believe in God," he said. "But they are worried because they are not sure whether God exists or not. It means they're confused. We're not confused."


source

The Islamic Supreme Council of Canada plans to run pro-God ads on city buses proving freedom of speech is alive and well
By MICHAEL PLATT




Someone in advertising sales at Calgary Transit must be praying for extra business: If anyone's going to win this religious war, it's the guy selling ads on the side of city buses.

Coming a close second is Alberta's reputation as a haven for free speech -- as other major Canadian cities censor controversial atheist transit ads, Calgary is busy taking orders for a counter-campaign from those on the other side.

"As long as it meets Canadian advertising standards, it's fine," said Ron Collins, spokesman for Calgary Transit.

Such was the relaxed attitude of Calgary Transit towards a plan to run pro-God advertising, in a counter-campaign to atheist ads expected to appear on Calgary buses in the next few weeks.

The Islamic Supreme Council of Canada says it will pay for its own bus billboards -- slogan to be determined -- to defend people of faith against those who question God's existence.

"Just as they have a right to express their opinion, we have a right to express our opinion," said Imam Syed Soharwardy, of the Islamic Supreme Council.

"People with atheist beliefs are coming forward aggressively and with force to promote their ideas, and it's important for them to know people of faith are united."

Soharwardy is calling on believers from all religions to help craft an appropriate response to the atheist message, "There is probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

He's collecting ideas for a pro-God slogan at contact@islamicsupremecouncil.com, and plans to have the ads ready to run concurrently with the anti-God message.

The Iman will have to move quickly. Justin Trottier, spokesman for the Freethought Association of Canada, says he'll be signing the contract with Calgary Transit this week, with his organization's atheist bus ads to follow. "It's definitely going ahead," said Trottier, Calgary being the second city after Toronto to host the campaign.

The ease by which both sides in the debate can pay to decorate Calgary buses has impressed Trottier, with many other cities in Canada banning the ads as too offensive and upsetting.

"Alberta certainly has a reputation of believing in free speech, and freedom of expression, and this shows why," said Trottier, head of the Toronto-based group.

So far, Trottier says Vancouver, Victoria, Kelowna, London and Halifax have refused to run the ads, while Ottawa city council is holding a vote on the issue after transit officials said no.

Calgary, on the other hand, is accepting ads from both sides without a peep of protest -- and at a rate of $8,000 for a one-month run on 20 buses, it's been a lucrative example of enlightened thinking.

After saying "no problem" to the atheist slogan, Calgary appears to be the first city where an actual religious debate will take place on public transit.

The Islamic council decision to run counter-ads comes after Catholic Bishop Fred Henry said Christians should be allowed to promote their views on buses.

Again, for Calgary Transit, it's no problem -- so long as the slogans meet with Canadian advertising standards, go ahead. Even the issue of drivers with strong religious convictions refusing to operate the "atheist" buses -- something that was a source of conflict during similar campaigns in Europe -- seems a non-starter here.

"There's been a handful of drivers who officially contacted us with concerns, but we've had a discussion with the employers, and it seems it'll be no problem for them to just grab a different bus," said Mike Mahar, president of the local Transit Union.

And so, Calgarians can look forward to a spring full of rolling billboards, while Calgary Transit can look forward to a coffer full of advertising revenue.

The winner of the religious argument won't be decided on Calgary's streets -- a grime-spattered bus ad is unlikely to shake anyone's convictions, pro-God or otherwise.

But Calgary has scored a major victory, by allowing open public debate on a very touchy subject -- though, of course, free speech is costing a few thousand dollars for those making the point.


source

 

[MisterF]

He told Canada AM that he's particularly concerned about young children who are just beginning to read and who are too innocent to think about the subject critically.

If there's a god and he's all powerful, then there'd be no doubt about his existence. Bus ads saying "there's probably no god" would be about as effective as bus ads saying "there's probably no bus".

If faith is so fragile that a bus ad can change people's minds, what does that say about belief in god?

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

"People with atheist beliefs are coming forward aggressively and with force to promote their ideas, and it's important for them to know people of faith are united."

sure they're united:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions

i guess these would be called unity celebrations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_wars

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

If faith is so fragile that a bus ad can change people's minds, what does that say about belief in god?

take a deeper look at the quote:

He told Canada AM that he's particularly concerned about young children who are just beginning to read and who are too innocent to think about the subject critically.

but you're never too young to be indoctrinated into a religion that wasn't your choice but your parents, who were also indoctrinated into a religion that wasn't their choice but their parents, etc.

you're never too innocent or young for the koran, bible, etc. actually, if you read the _______, you'd learn that you're never too young or innocent for ___________. (those that know can fill in the blanks and understand what i'm talking about.)

 

[Brian69]

take a deeper look at the quote:


but you're never too young to be indoctrinated into a religion that wasn't your choice but your parents, who were also indoctrinated into a religion that wasn't their choice but their parents, etc.

you're never too innocent or young for the koran, bible, etc. actually, if you read the _______, you'd learn that you're never too young or innocent for ___________. (those that know can fill in the blanks and understand what i'm talking about.)

That's the first thing that came to my mind as well. In general children are indoctrinated into their parents' religious beliefs at an early age, whether through church attendance, bible reading, Sunday school or simply saying a prayer at night. Talk about not getting a chance to think critically. To think that a slogan on a few buses approaches this level of indoctrination is nuts.

"Soharwardy is calling on believers from all religions to help craft an appropriate response to the atheist message, "There is probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

He's collecting ideas for a pro-God slogan at contact@islamicsupremecouncil.com, and plans to have the ads ready to run concurrently with the anti-God message."

Oh, I can imagines some of the responses he'll get. How about:

"There's most certainly a God, so you'd better start worrying about believing in Him or else its hellfire for you"

or

"There's definitely a God, but you'd better pick the right one if you know what's good for you."

I just can't imagine what kind of pro-God message would be needed to counter such a mild statement against belief. Really, the United Church's answer is about as mild as it gets which makes it hardly necessary under the circumstances. And, quite frankly, I doubt the Islamic Supreme Council of Canada is defending all people of faith on the grounds it has great respect for all forms of belief in God (especially the polytheistic ones). It should really be honest about what it believes and what it thinks about all non-believers. False ecumenism bothers me as much as honest exclusivism.