Anyone sold their own home? Or used a flat-fee MLS service?

[NancyL]

I don't believe that's true. FSBO companies like PropertyGuys and ComFree have been around for years. But you are right in that until recently, you can't do FSBO and put your listing on MLS.

Personally, I totally appreciate MLS is opening up. But on the other hand, MLS *is* being funded by CREA in Canada, so it is not totally unreasonable that they only allowed members to list. People could create a different marketplace if they like, and the FSBO companies have tried to do that. But it just doesn't draw the same critical mass as the MLS.

 

[doug]

I just think there are good realtors and there are bad realtors. Unfortunately, the bad ones are spoiling the reputation of all Realtors.

Such as the one you're agreeing with?

I agree with cityplaceguy.

 

[cityplaceguy]

I got an education instead....you should try it
QUOTE]

So there is no education to become a Realtor? have you heard about the requirements, and the courses? that you have to keep continually taking? earning your credits yearly.

What is it you do doug? how would you feel if someone said what you do is not worth the money your paid? cut your earning in half?

We work hard for our money, around the clock night and day, at least other get to enjoy evenings and weekends remember that

 

[Wooba]

Well Nancy we can agree to disagree on that. End users know MLS. It's what everyone uses. Sure it's been possible to sell without using it, but realistically if you're not on MLS you're invisible to 90% or more of the market. That makes (or made) an agent mandatory.

 

[doug]

So there is no education to become a Realtor?

You appear to be proof of that.

What is it you do doug?

What is your name?

at least other get to enjoy evenings and weekends remember that

Only those who don't work evenings and weekends.

 

[PatP]

I'm my opinion Realtors are not needed, they are overpaid but what one must understand is that what your paying for is not necessarily the services rendered. 90% of a Realtors time is wasted with clients that don't end up buying/selling, advertising, lead generating etc, and who pays for all that in the end??? You!

The process of selling/buying a home is not that difficult at all, we have access to all listing and can do our own due diligent research. When I was buying my home I sent my Realtor the listings I wanted to see, the ones she sent me were all off something she should have know (no parking, older building, high maint, not specified area etc). As for communication it was like broken phone, I call or try to get a hold of my agent who then tries to get a hold of other agent who then tries to get hold of her client. This process takes over a day at times, with people working etc, and by the time the info passes through its so altered or missing details etc.

It would be far easier to communicate in all aspects from generic questions to negotiating etc if we eliminate these Realtors who are out trying to mooch of others profits. As for all the documentations agreement, conditions etc this is all basic paperwork and nothing more. I have been involved in Real-estate and have knowledge even held a licence at one time.

Most of today's agents are nothing more than a joke, its time we get our heads out of our asses and do as they have been doing in Quebec and Ottawa for a long time now. It is a dyeing, unprofessional profession like Travel agents, Insurance agents, soon to be Mortgage agents etc.

 

[cityplaceguy]

I'm my opinion Realtors are not needed, they are overpaid but what one must understand is that what your paying for is not necessarily the services rendered. 90% of a Realtors time is wasted with clients that don't end up buying/selling, advertising, lead generating etc, and who pays for all that in the end??? You!

The process of selling/buying a home is not that difficult at all, we have access to all listing and can do our own due diligent research. When I was buying my home I sent my Realtor the listings I wanted to see, the ones she sent me were all off something she should have know (no parking, older building, high maint, not specified area etc). As for communication it was like broken phone, I call or try to get a hold of my agent who then tries to get a hold of other agent who then tries to get hold of her client. This process takes over a day at times, with people working etc, and by the time the info passes through its so altered or missing details etc.

It would be far easier to communicate in all aspects from generic questions to negotiating etc if we eliminate these Realtors who are out trying to mooch of others profits. As for all the documentations agreement, conditions etc this is all basic paperwork and nothing more. I have been involved in Real-estate and have knowledge even held a licence at one time.

Most of today's agents are nothing more than a joke, its time we get our heads out of our asses and do as they have been doing in Quebec and Ottawa for a long time now. It is a dyeing, unprofessional profession like Travel agents, Insurance agents, soon to be Mortgage agents etc.

Wow you are a mister now it all! good luck but can you analize the market, do you really now what your looking for? you think its that easy? our job is to get you the most for your money, with us you actually save alot more money than if you sell it youself! You think you can pull of a surgery too? try operating on someone because you see it on tv and look so easy! To become a Realtor is hard work, lots of study and let me tell you most cannot make it, the exam is toughh!

Also we have more understanding about laws, requirements, market etc that you people simply wont know, this is my business what I do, and my client love me. I help people find there dream home for amazing price! I have contacts who do everything when it comes to your home examples

Appraiser- Tell you your value

Home inspector-Tell you if any problems

Insurane-Get you best deals and save you money and protect you

Mortgege-Have contacts who get you best deal, if not approved by others we can approve you for a fee guaranteed

Movers-They will move your stuff and pay for damage (if happen)

ETC ETC....

Me and my team makes this stressful time like a dream for the client!

If you think you are better off byyourself, goodluck

Call me if you need me!

Dont settle for the rest come be with the best!

 

[doug]

Wow you are a mister now it all!

LOL

good luck but can you analize the market,

Snicker

You think you can pull of a surgery too?

surgery = selling real estate

To become a Realtor is hard work, lots of study and let me tell you most cannot make it, the exam is toughh!

but spelling doesn't count.

Also we have more understanding about laws

like how to defraud insurance companies, and tips on indoor gardening?

 

[airbag]

I'm looking for an FSBO site or company. Could you guys please share some experiences?

So far I like comFree best. Here are their packages. Classic+MLS is around $400+tax.

 

[Wooba]

My place is currently listed with comfree. As an organization I've been very happy with them. They took excellent photos and the lady was there at least a couple of hours explaining everything and answering my questions. So far I've not had much luck selling (been 4 weeks) but my building has lots for sale so I'm not convinced its because of comfree.

Be prepared for calls from agents. LOTS of calls. Despite putting in my listing that I will pay buyers agents commission and calls from listing agents are not welcome they are absolutely relentless. They will lie and promise you all sorts to convince you. When asked to back up those in writing (I can get you more money in less time) they soon change their tune. I didn't have a very good opinion of agents before but now I absolutely hate them. I know there are ethical hard working agents out there but I think they are only a tiny portion of them.

One important thing. The comfree MLS listing is done through the Ottawa board. Buyers will see you on MLS but Toronto agents will not see you. If its possible I would look into using comfree without MLS then find someone in Toronto that will put you on the treb MLS system.

From what I can see if you're somewhere that homes are selling fast you should sell quickly, but in slower areas it might take a bit longer because many agents won't bring you buyers.
overall I'd recommend comfree

 

[airbag]

Thanks Wooba! That's interesting that comfree lists through the Ottawa board.
Does anyone know a flat fee MLS posting service that lists through TREB?

 

[drewp]

Very Interesting read! First off I would like to say that I am a Realtor (don't judge yet). I have to disagree with Cityplace about how difficult it is to get your license. Yes the books are a long read, but to get a license in 6 months of school is too sudden in my opinion. Our education usually stems from hands on experience. There is definetely value working with a "professional" agent, not ones that throw stupid ego centric tag lines at us. I think the problem does not stem from the Agents themselves, its the system that is tied to the Realtors. The brokerage will recruit anyone with a pulse, there training is based on traditional sales models which is great to generate business IF you apply them regularly for several months to several years. They don't take the time to educate you on contracts, legal issues, market conditions, (global) economics, mortgages and so forth. Most of the time I am told to defer, which I understand. Most of those bad seeds in the industry are people who get their license and think business will come to them. They might get a few deals from friends or family, and thats it. These people are ruining the industry because they don't receive the proper education from both OREA, and the brokerage. Rememeber 90% of agents fail in two years. These are the Agents that are ruining the industry for the ones that work hard for their clients. I think if the schooling was longer, say one two years of extensive training, we would see less screw ups, and less unqualified people enter the industry, but then these big name brokerages might be going out of business if they don't have the volume of new agents joining them. I will tell you that most of brokerages make the most money on new Agents because the brokergae requires more of their split in the beginning. If you think the general public is being monopolozed try working with a big brand broker. Don't get me wrong I love what I do, but I understand why the general public has this negative image of us. If you are just going to use any Agent you probably will get someoone that does not have the level of professionalism that you should deserve.

Now in regards to Comfree, and Property Guys. What i don't understand is, if you post on MLS and the brokerage is not affiliated with the TREB you are wasting your money. If you are cooperating with the buyers agent offering 2.5% which most people are doing when they use the FSBO, the agents who you want to market to will not be able to find your listing. When I search the MLS I will put a specific address or area, and schedule appointments that I think will interest my clients. If the listing is not with the TREB I will not see it.

So my question is, who are you marketing too this way? Granted their is a small group of people that are searching without the use of a Realtor, but that is a small percentage. Part of being a good Agent is to market to not only the general public but to other Agents.

 

[Wooba]

Drewp: I don't have the stats handy, but the % of sold vs. unsold is about the same with comfree as it is on MLS. Also, comfree.com is the 2nd most active real estate website behind realtor.ca (it was third behind remax, but it recently took over). Granted, the lack of being on TREB is a handicap IF you're willing to work with agents, but based on the comfree forums, many people won't work with agents at all so no big loss. Also there's clearly many agents that won't deal with FSBO, regardless of if there's commission. From what I've read, virtually every person that's sold to a buyer with an agent it's because the buyer said I want to go see that place.

I've got time on my side and I have the potential to save myself close to $20,000 tax free. That's not chump change and it's worth my time.

Let me post for you something that recently happened to another comfree customer.

We actually got a real estate agent who brought us a couple that were interested in our house. Unfortunately, she lied to them about the price,among other things. She had included her commission in the costs. she should have been honest with them from the beginning about the fact that we were selling privately. she had us remove the Comfree sign from our house, and she had presented herself to them as though we were listed with her. We obliged because they seemed serious about buying.

Funny enough, when visiting with the couple, she asked us to open the garage and they saw the Comfree sale sign. This led to the interested buyers finding us on COmfree and calling us the next day. To make an already long story short, the couple discovered the truth, called us directly and said they really wanted to buy the house directly from us. Unfortunately the agreement they had with the agent didn't allow them to do so.

Isn't this some sort of breach of the OREA/Treb ethics?

 

[drewp]

Wooba,

Possibly the buyers are under a buyer service agreement. In that agreement it states the Realtor is entitled to receive ___________% of listing price, usually 2.5%. Plus there is a holdover period usually 90 days on average, which means if the realtor shows a buyer a property they cannot just contact that seller and purchase the place privately without the buyer being responsible for paying the 2.5% commission. I usually have my buyer sign a buyer service agreement for 2.5%, and I ask them if they want to see this property but they are offering no cooperating commission, are you willing to cover the 2.5%. No one has said yes to me, and that is where you could lose a lot of agents possibly seeing your place.

For the agent to represent the property falsely is the reason why I HATE some of these realtors. There is so much business that there is no reason to manipulate a situation like that.

The problem with the stats from Comfree and property guys is that I have noticed quite a bit of listings on their site that say sold by Comfree or Property Guys, where the reality is they are sold by a Cooperating at 2.5% plus the 500-1000 to list the property is closer to 3%. It is somewhat misleading because it has not been sold privately. This FSBO are really discount brokerages, because most will offer the cooperating fee.

 

[Wooba]

Actually drewp, the percentage of comfree sold without ANY agent is 90%! (and 20 - 25% of all real estate transactions in Canada do not involve an agent)
It's hardly surprising because I've not had a single agent come show my place. It's all been down to me to get people through the door. Despite not being on TREB, trust me, agents KNOW my place is for sale. I have the phone logs to prove it.

With regard to the scenario another seller had, I'm aware that the buyer might have had a BRA, but the agent should be honest and upfront instead of pulling a con job like this. If I were that buyer, I'd be contacting anyone and everyone within TREB, the Brokerage, OREA, CREA, etc to get that BRA invalidated. That level of professionalism needs to be eliminated and unfortunately my recently experience with many, many agents is stuff of similar calibre. To be fair, I have dealt with some excellent agents, but I don't think that their services, no matter how good a job they do is worth what it costs.

I have no problem paying people for their time and services. If the total commission was 2.5% (1.25 each) or a reasonable flat rate then I would probably use an agent. It's time for the real estate boards around the country to toughen the entrance requirements like you said to clean out the dead weight, but also the prices need to come down. House prices have soared past inflation and the current percentage hasn't decreased to reflect that. The music industry fought technology and was almost brought to its knees. It finally worked with technology and is now doing well again. And who the hell goes to a travel agent any more?
Comfree is already half the market in Quebec and it's only a matter of time before it spreads to Ontario and beyond. They had better adapt before it's too late.