Amalgamation

[Electrify]

One benefit to separating Toronto is that property tax values would be able to be averaged better. While most every municipality has its good and bad areas, few have such great discrepancies as Toronto. This is especially true with business taxes, as countless businesses and industries has moved to the inner 905 due to lower costs - thus leaving the outer 416 with a severe lack of employment opportunities. And since this is where the poverty is concentrated, these places need these opportunities the most.

That said, as someone from the 905 looking in, the "urban/suburban" divide is ridiculous. Pre-amalgamation, most people thought of Metropolitan Toronto AS Toronto! If driving along the 400 south past Steeles, the sign which came up said Metropolitan Toronto, not North York. Likewise the next sign said downtown Toronto follow 11A Avenue Rd via 401 west, not downtown North York via Finch Ave or 11 Yonge St via 401 west. As incorrect and naive as I might have been, I always felt I was entering Toronto after crossing Steeles on the 404, not when I was crossing Bloor on the Don Valley Parkway.

Up until the election of Ford, the urban/suburban divide among such forums seemed to be divided between the 416 and the 905. Only in the last few years have these discussions shifted between old Toronto (or at most, pre-WWII Toronto) and the inner suburbs.

Bottom line: If you are in the census metropolitan area of Toronto, you are in Toronto.

 

[nfitz]

How long did you live in EY? Did you have children in the school system?

Only a few months, but it seemed pretty ghetto to me. Used to live on Gateway Blvd. Was in the local elementary school (Gateway Public) a little bit - seemed rather dire to me.

Roads cleaned when it snows? Have you lived elsewhere than Toronto? I was shocked when I returned to Toronto a few years ago at how much snow clearing there was - most places just salt until there's 5 cm or so. And at how fast it was. And that at 9 pm on a Saturday night, I could actually get a human to answer the phone about snow clearing, and within 90 minutes (after waiting a week!) they'd put salt down my laneway!

Even now, I live just south of East York (near Gerrard) and you only have to start walking north of Danforth into East York to see that that infrastructure deteriotes north of Danforth. Sidewalks, pavement, lack of traffic lights. Less libraries, community centres ... etc. The housing seems poorer as well (or perhaps it's just the people).

 

[FutureBuilder]

Only a few months, but it seemed pretty ghetto to me. Used to live on Gateway Blvd. Was in the local elementary school (Gateway Public) a little bit - seemed rather dire to me.

Roads cleaned when it snows? Have you lived elsewhere than Toronto? I was shocked when I returned to Toronto a few years ago at how much snow clearing there was - most places just salt until there's 5 cm or so. And at how fast it was. And that at 9 pm on a Saturday night, I could actually get a human to answer the phone about snow clearing, and within 90 minutes (after waiting a week!) they'd put salt down my laneway!

Even now, I live just south of East York (near Gerrard) and you only have to start walking north of Danforth into East York to see that that infrastructure deteriotes north of Danforth. Sidewalks, pavement, lack of traffic lights. Less libraries, community centres ... etc. The housing seems poorer as well (or perhaps it's just the people).

LOL you lived on Gateway (in Flemingdon Park.... East York's version of "Jane and Finch") for a "few months" and are talking about East York as an expert? LOL too funny.

East York used to be divided into four "Wards" and Flemingdon Park was a small part of Ward 4. The rest of Ward 4 (which includes Leaside) and the other three wards ran like clockwork.

You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about so please kindly refrain from writing B.S.

 

[nfitz]

LOL you lived on Gateway (in Flemingdon Park.... East York's version of "Jane and Finch") for a "few months" and are talking about East York as an expert? LOL too funny.

East York used to be divided into four "Wards" and Flemingdon Park was a small part of Ward 4. The rest of Ward 4 (which includes Leaside) and the other three wards ran like clockwork.

Oh, so it just so happens that the other 3 parts of it were run much better? Pull the other one, it plays a tune!

You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about so please kindly refrain from writing B.S.

I'm writing bullshit? Come on, you only have to start walking up Woodbine north of Danforth to see the infrastructure deficit that still exists.

And good grief, ... no sidewalk on Don Mills north of O'Connor?

And why are there so few libraries and community centres?

Why did you fail to address my other points in the post, and simply rely on some kind of anti-Flemingdon Park thing?

My gosh, East York must have been incompetently run if they knew well that one ward was being poorly served, and failed to fix it. Sounds to me like Michael Prue must have been a complete screw-up. Though hang on - he was only one election in East York - so probably not his fault.

Oh wait, is the the same Michael Prue is my useless, do-nothing MPP? Who opens twitter accounts shortly before each election, and then doesn't do anything with them after the election? Who never seems to communicate with constituents? Who I'm yet to see show up at any local event, despite running into my councillor (both current and previous) frequently?

 

[King of Kensington]

LOL you lived on Gateway (in Flemingdon Park.... East York's version of "Jane and Finch") for a "few months" and are talking about East York as an expert? LOL too funny.

East York used to be divided into four "Wards" and Flemingdon Park was a small part of Ward 4. The rest of Ward 4 (which includes Leaside) and the other three wards ran like clockwork.

You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about so please kindly refrain from writing B.S.

Uh...Flemingdon was actually in North York not East York.

 

[nfitz]

Uh...Flemingdon was actually in North York not East York.

Shh. FutureBuilder is the expert here. He can't possibly be wrong with his superior knowledge of East York

 

[W. K. Lis]

Before amalgamation, local property taxes within each city/borough was divided among the property values within the city/borough, not as is now between all properties within the new city. A property in the old City of Toronto would have a higher property value, so pays more property taxes than the very same house in North York.

 

[spider]

Shh. FutureBuilder is the expert here. He can't possibly be wrong with his superior knowledge of East York

But you located Flemingdon as being in EY first. In any event Flemingdon was much newer than the EY I knew so a comparison is not really fair.

I lived in EY in 3 locations for over 20 years as a child, teenager and young adult. I liked the schools as well as I suppose I would have liked any school and the recreation facilities were OK but as a kid I probably wasn't qualified to make any meaningful comparisons with the City.

 

[nfitz]

But you located Flemingdon as being in EY first. In any event Flemingdon was much newer than the EY I knew so a comparison is not really fair.

Not fair because it's newer? Seems backwards. Though isn't west of Don Mills still East York? Thorncliffe didn't look any different than Flemingdon - though I didn't go into any schools there. Mall seems rather scuzzy when I used to shop there (haven't been in there in over 30 years, other than the bowling alley).

 

[adma]

Actually, East York is a strange bird--and I'd almost be willing to count Thorncliffe and Leaside as "separate" from the south-of-the-DVP EY heartland (all the more so as it was *literally* separate up until 1966).

Strange, though, that given what we know of FutureBuilder, he sings the praises of Michael Prue--an *NDPer*. (Which is yet another one of those reasons why politics is a lot more complicated than crude left/right divides indicate.)

 

[King of Kensington]

Actually, East York is a strange bird--and I'd almost be willing to count Thorncliffe and Leaside as "separate" from the south-of-the-DVP EY heartland (all the more so as it was *literally* separate up until 1966).

Yeah it was never a good "fit." The split in the community council boundaries actually made some sense there.

 

[King of Kensington]

Doug Saunders was arguing on Twitter today about how great amalgamation was.

 

[nfitz]

Strange, though, that given what we know of FutureBuilder, he sings the praises of Michael Prue--an *NDPer*. (Which is yet another one of those reasons why politics is a lot more complicated than crude left/right divides indicate.)

It is strange. It's also strange that after a couple of elections with him as my MPP, I still have no idea where he stands, nor have I voted for him.

Though I confess voting for the NDP federally last time, with that Ignatief moron running the Liberals ... who I still think is more a Tory than a Liberal. First time I voted NDP in nearly 30 years (voted for Bob Rae in 1987 when Peterson won, because I thought NDP had done great job of keeping Peterson honest, but then voted Peterson in 1990 when Rae won, because I thought Peterson had done decent job). I did vote NDP once in Quebec in 1985, but it wasn't about politics, it was because there was no way on the planet I was voting for that fork-tongued piece of s... Bourassa, and even though the PQ under Pierre-Marc Johnson was more palatable, I wouldn't vote PQ, and the NDP (despite being separatists) was about all the choice there was. (politics are odd, I knew more than one Anglo who voted PQ in 1976, because they despised Bourassa so much, and thought at least the PQ were honest about what they wanted).

Though I think some of you think I'm well left of the NDP ... I seldom support them. Even less so in their more populist form here in Ontario these days.

 

[junior43]

Question for everyone. Were you against amalgamation when Miller was Mayor? I get the sense, a lot of people want to de-amalgamate, just because of who's in charge currently, and because he's more representative of the suburbs priorities vs. downtown's priorities.

 

[Ice_Burn]

Question for everyone. Were you against amalgamation when Miller was Mayor? I get the sense, a lot of people want to de-amalgamate, just because of who's in charge currently, and because he's more representative of the suburbs priorities vs. downtown's priorities.

Speaking personally, I have been against amalgamation from the beginning, and especially so under Miller. Not just because of differing priorities, but because the efficiencies supposedly gained from amalgamation haven't seemed to materialize. I chalked up Mel's term, for better or worse, as growing pains for a new, expanded city but under Miller the cracks in the foundation really started to show.

e: pardon the pun, honestly didn't notice it haha