Sorry, my point wasn't clear. I was being a little obtuse just for the fun of it and it rightfully went wooosh!
I just think it is funny for us to criticize people for coming here with a set of values they don't want to change. Because that is the history of 'western' civilization in this part of the world.
Last I checked, white Euro-oriented Anglo Saxon society, social structure, institutions and values weren't here when the first of us arrived. That means that...wait for it...the history of Canada was built by people coming over and not changing their beliefs, their practices and their norms and imposing them on others. Call me when we're having this discussion in Ouendat.
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Listen, I get your point and it is a good one but we truly aren't an uncharted wilderness anymore (from a euro-centric context, at least). We have a long history behind us and a belief in the separation of church and state is a bi-product of that history, and one that seems to have stuck, standing up to the ongoing litmus test that is history. We shouldn't just dismiss this lightly...'tatanka'!
Yes, and having these kids in public school learning the curriculum is what will help them assimilate.
Being so inflexible that we can't let them out for an hour (or less) to pray on a Friday will drive many of them into a religious-oriented education outside of the system where they will do exactly what you don't want them to do - not learn the curriculum, and not integrate into society.
How many Muslim friends do you have? Then compare them to how many Amish friends you have. Then you'll get it. Which path do you want Canadian Muslims to take?.
... but that's just my point. I actually do know quite a few Mennonites who have modernized and whose lives have evolved outward beyond the strictures of the insular cultures/lifestyles they come from (as they perceive them at least). This is not to say they reject all of the religious beliefs or cultural practices that are their tradition but only that they have been willing to evolve and adapt themselves into the wider, more mainstream society. Heck, times change, and even among the Amish! Who knew?? In other words, there will always be those for whom change is not a choice (though personally I shake my head in bafflement) but lets face it they only end up isolating themselves in the long run anyway. Most will change over time, however, as others have in the past. In fact, why would anybody who is so intractable want to keep their children in the public school system to start with?
Not espousing a single religion isn't much of an accommodation for those that practice another. Last I checked, we still don't have school on Xmas and Good Friday and Easters, but not Yom Kippur or Ramadan.
... but I don't agree with those things either. Claiming we have to allow prayer in the school because the system is flawed to start with doesn't seem like a very constructive approach to me. Instead we should continue to improve the system.
(PS - Religious education wasn't soundly rejected considering that 32 percent of voters voted for the party espousing religious education in public schools and more than 90 percent of voters voted for a party that supported some form of religious education in schools. FYI I'm not in favour of it at all, just correcting your assumption.)
To be fair, the election was lost on the issue. Clearly. Yes, I'm sure there are those of all faiths would like taxpayers to fund their insular school systems but thankfully reason prevailed
The system isn't taking in religion in any way. Nothing is being done within the school system. This is a complete red herring.
Yes, 'prayer' is being allowed within the school itself, so how can this possibly be a red herring? Some religious doctrine is offensive to some who don't share it. This shouldn't even be an issue. School should be a safe zone for all kids no matter what their beliefs or backgrounds... and look, I understand that the intention is to be accommodating, don't get me wrong, but where do we draw the line? The Sikh Kirpan is ok? What will future new groups to Canada require us to accommodate? Why even set this precedent?
If this were a bunch of Dutch Calvinists in Flamborough or Jews in Thornhill or Mormons in wherever we wouldn't even be discussing it.
Well you're essentially bringing the issue back to Islamaphobia again which I don't agree with... although I do agree that there is a bit of an anti-muslim taint to all of this which is unfortunate. Some people just like a bandwagon to jump on! At the end of the day though I would like to think that it would be equally unacceptable for Jewish or Catholic or protestant prayer in the school as it should be for muslim prayer.
Good exchange though.. and thanks for keeping it respectful (unlike some others).
