News   Nov 20, 2019
 75     0 
News   Nov 20, 2019
 101     0 
News   Nov 19, 2019
 3.3K     26 

Allan Gardens Revitalization Plan

Northern Light

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
4,615
Reaction score
4,291
Location
Toronto/EY
For example they couldn't get funding for the Moss Park revitalisation. I believe that's cancelled now.
Not accurate to my knowledge.

Funding for the Moss Park Master Plan and 519 Partnership is in this year's capital budget, to the tune of over $300,000

The plan, to my understanding, was initiated due to a significant donation offer.

Its listed as unfunded, so far as I know, because they don't yet have a completely masterplan, or working drawings etc.

I believe they also require donor concurrence once this stage is reached.

Though I will stand to be corrected if anyone has better intel.
 

radioheadmike

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
275
Reaction score
55
Really? Where did you hear that? It has certainly been very quiet but I had not heard it had died.
Either here or reddit r/toronto but I remember someone affiliated with 519 mentioned that they couldn't get full funding. If you go to the the website, they haven't updated it in a while.
 

radioheadmike

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
275
Reaction score
55
Not accurate to my knowledge.

Funding for the Moss Park Master Plan and 519 Partnership is in this year's capital budget, to the tune of over $300,000

The plan, to my understanding, was initiated due to a significant donation offer.

Its listed as unfunded, so far as I know, because they don't yet have a completely masterplan, or working drawings etc.

I believe they also require donor concurrence once this stage is reached.

Though I will stand to be corrected if anyone has better intel.
I really hope I am wrong, I'd love to see moss park and Allan garden revitalized and heavily utilized as Trinity bellwoods.
 

Admiral Beez

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
7,507
Reaction score
1,719
I think I've said it before, but what I like about some parks in the UK similar to Allan Gardens is that they are walled, gated, permanently staffed/patrolled and often closed at night. The walls and gates direct access and define space, the park staff can watch for by-law infractions (public drunkenness, littering, vandalism), while maintaining the grounds and bringing a sense of safety. If you've ever visited the Halifax gardens in Nova Scotia you'll see what I mean, shown below.

 

pman

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,567
Reaction score
1,081
Aren’t the walled parks you’re referring to actually private gardens for the immediate residents?
 

Northern Light

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
4,615
Reaction score
4,291
Location
Toronto/EY
I think I've said it before, but what I like about some parks in the UK similar to Allan Gardens is that they are walled, gated, permanently staffed/patrolled and often closed at night. The walls and gates direct access and define space, the park staff can watch for by-law infractions (public drunkenness, littering, vandalism), while maintaining the grounds and bringing a sense of safety. If you've ever visited the Halifax gardens in Nova Scotia you'll see what I mean, shown below.

That sounds utterly unappealing.

I'm genuinely surprised it appeals to anyone.

Anytime I've had guests over from communities w/these types of parks, they've raved about our (Toronto's) parks not having closing times, not being fenced in, not feeling like they are police-stated.

The thought of surrounding parks w/jail bars, however gilded makes me think of an oppressive society where only the 'right kind of people' are welcome in parks.

I hasten to add I thoroughly enjoy stopping by parks at 1am on the odd late night stroll on a warm summer's night.

This is also a city of shift workers who ought to have access to green spaces too.

I have no objection to responsible 'policing' of parks to ensure public safety and deter vandalism, but I'll take a pass on anything that feels like being carded in order to get into a park.
 
Last edited:

TrickyRicky

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,337
Reaction score
449
Northern Light, I'm in general agreement with you that I don't support walled, closed parks as is common in Europe or Asia. These parks tend to be nicer and programming better in the kind of intense investment design programmed way that is appealing to many people on this forum but they are as you say not really congruent with the general social ideas in our city.

That being said I don't agree that freedom of user activity is non-exclusionary. Users of parks exclude others by using the space. Your concern it seems is that marginalized people would be further marginalized by entry enforcement. That is probably true. On the other hand marginalized people also exclude others by making them not comfortable to use the space.

I have a laissez-faire attitude to this, that park users must carve out and create their own balance. This process however is not neutral. It involves confrontation and occasional enforcement and I can understand that there is a silent majority unwilling to participate. That's why programmed, controlled, and regulated spaces are probably more popular.
 

pman

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,567
Reaction score
1,081
It’s hard to tell about people though. I was working out of my firm’s London office in the summer of 2004 and my family joined me. We used to take the kids to Battersea Park. One day, I noticed a derro (don’t hate me, I’m half Australian) in the playground and went to Defcon 2, which I know terribly incorrect of me but having young kids does make one overprotective. Anyway the derro turned out to be Bob Geldoff, who had taken a young girl to the playground. Either him or Super Hans....no, really Sir Bob.
 

Northern Light

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
4,615
Reaction score
4,291
Location
Toronto/EY
Northern Light, I'm in general agreement with you that I don't support walled, closed parks as is common in Europe or Asia. These parks tend to be nicer and programming better in the kind of intense investment design programmed way that is appealing to many people on this forum but they are as you say not really congruent with the general social ideas in our city.

That being said I don't agree that freedom of user activity is non-exclusionary. Users of parks exclude others by using the space. Your concern it seems is that marginalized people would be further marginalized by entry enforcement. That is probably true. On the other hand marginalized people also exclude others by making them not comfortable to use the space.

I have a laissez-faire attitude to this, that park users must carve out and create their own balance. This process however is not neutral. It involves confrontation and occasional enforcement and I can understand that there is a silent majority unwilling to participate. That's why programmed, controlled, and regulated spaces are probably more popular.
@TrickyRicky you have a 'conversation' pending.

***

On the subject of the above, I will share that friends who live in the affluent Detroit area of Grosse Point shared w/me that they have security at one (or all?) of their parks, and that you have to show ID proving you live in Grosse Point to gain admission to the park.

That does more than deter someone who may be homeless (which I do see as a problem); it deters many people who will feel imposed upon and outright prohibits someone who doesn't live in that area from using that park.

That to me is awful and sounds completely contemptible.

In respect of those who may be homeless etc.

I'm not opposed to policing inappropriate use of a park. Though, I don't think someone taking a nap on a lawn should necessarily be assumed to be homeless or even doing something wrong.

But I would prefer to see that any action not prohibit entry to a park, or responsible use of a park by anyone.

I would also prefer any 'inappropriate' use be address by social worker outreach, or by offering appropriate alternatives (ie. if you want someone to use a washroom rather than a bush, make a washroom available).

To me that's not merely kinder, its also provides better infrastructure (everyone gets use of the washroom); and its cheaper (helping house someone properly is invariably cheaper than hostels, or jails) .
 

Student99

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
439
Reaction score
127
I think I've said it before, but what I like about some parks in the UK similar to Allan Gardens is that they are walled, gated, permanently staffed/patrolled and often closed at night. The walls and gates direct access and define space, the park staff can watch for by-law infractions (public drunkenness, littering, vandalism), while maintaining the grounds and bringing a sense of safety. If you've ever visited the Halifax gardens in Nova Scotia you'll see what I mean, shown below.

I visited the Halifax gardens, as well as the Boston gardens, last summer on a roadtrip. REALLY liked them and wished Toronto had something similar! To those of you saying that fenced in parks are off-putting... well, actually these were very pleasant to visit. Being open only during the day meant that there were no hijinks at night- no smashed beer bottles for Sunday morning walkers, no grafitti, etc. In these cases though, there were also large non-fenced public parks nearby (in Boston, Boston Common is literally adjacent) which I think is helpful and important. To those arriving disappointed to a closed garden, they could still hang in the park nearby.
 

Admiral Beez

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
7,507
Reaction score
1,719
The thought of surrounding parks w/jail bars, however gilded makes me think of an oppressive society where only the 'right kind of people' are welcome in parks.
It’s about trying to get more of this...



To balance against much of this...



Is there a way to get more ableminded folks and families into parks without exiling the homeless?
 

Top