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Afghanistan debate (Hillier, new troops)

Maybe not, since today Obama reached out to the Iranian government and the current Afghanistan government is standing up to those who want to interfere with the elections there......The thing is brian69, Obama has to learn as time goes by and his opinions change as the corruption is exposed in Afghanistan just like in the financial crisis.

Obama is not a war monger and it appears that he is quite different from our Harper government as well.

This topic is still very active.

The troops in Afghanistan are expected to arrive when?

Most of NATO understood what a failure the Afghani invasion would be and Mackay still thinks the Canadian forces are the glue holding Afghanistan together......how stupid do these people get? Do you honestly think our American friends know what they are doing over there?
 
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jade_lee said:
I certainly don't hate the millitary but I do want them to be accountable to the people who employ them, That is the big difference between our school of thoughts.
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Your views are repugnant. Our armed forces are accountable to the people of Canada through their elected governments. We do no undertake any action without the explicit instruction of the government in power. Are you suggesting that our military runs off on its own to do missions whenever it feels like? One of the highest principles of our armed forces that is maintained at every level is civilian control of the military. I find it absolutely disgusting and insulting that you would suggest otherwise. Please post some proof to your assertion. Otherwise your ignorant assertions can stand alone for what they are worth.

ps. Your ignorance of what the military does, and how it operates combined with your repeated tirades against any military certainly don't show your support for the military. I have nothing wrong with those who hate the military. But please be honest about it.
 
Most Canadians do not know what our military is up to, i.e. I bet most people here in Canada don't realize how much our military contributed in Iraq even though our government (Chretien) did not support that mission. Explain that.
I don't support these missions in Iraq or Afghanistan.....I am not alone.
 
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Yeah, I'm sure the stuff you make up about the military sounds bad. And of course, you're never alone. Scary.
 
jade_lee said:
Most Canadians do not know what our military is up to, i.e. I bet most people here in Canada don't realize how much our military contributed in Iraq even though our government (Chretien) did not support that mission. Explain that.
I don't support these missions in Iraq or Afghanistan.....I am not alone.
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Oh, don't hold back now. Go on, do tell...how much is Canada's military up to its neck in it being involved in Iraq? Let's hear it.
 
How about we here it from the military expert here....tell us about the ships deployed and the Canadian commanders serving in Iraq keithz. I know that was written in the newspaper.
 
Canadian Military Commanders involved in the Iraqi war? Yes shocking indeed.
Maybe we need to hear more about their involvement and let us decide who tells who what to do.
 
jade_lee said:
How about we here it from the military expert here....tell us about the ships deployed and the Canadian commanders serving in Iraq keithz. I know that was written in the newspaper.
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Once again your ignorance shines through. Do you really think that the military would deploy its personnel without government instruction?

Yes, Canada made a significant contribution to the Iraq War. But that was a decision made by the Prime Minister at the time. The ship you speak off (HMCS Iroquois) were preparing to return home when the PMO quietly issued instructions that they would participate in the war. I had friends on exchange with British, US and NATO forces (roughly 150 Canadians on exchange and another 30 working at US CENTCOM in Qatar). They were packing their bags to come home as soon as they saw on the news that Canada was not going to participate in Iraq. Then, lo and behold, they get instructions saying that all military personnel on exchange will particpate.

But you gotta love how Chretien played it. Canadian personnel were ordered to participate. But they would not get any recognition from their own government. No medal. No notation in their service records. And there was even some debate at the time if they would get death or veteran benefits by a government that sooo wanted to convince the public that there were no Canadians in Iraq.

That being said, please stop diverting from the issue. You have asserted that our government does not control our military. You have not posted any evidence yet to back up your ignorant views. Please do so. If you can't then leave this thread idle. It's about Hillier's retirement. We have the Afghan war thread going to entertain the rest of your ignorance.
 
I started the thread and I like where it has gone......when we catch our government being less than honest we should pounce on it. The thread was a pounce on Hillier and now it's a revealing source about how deceitful our military was towards our Iraqi engagement to the general public under both parties....you say they were up front and that Hillier was a hero, I disagree with both assertions.....the military culture serves Canada and not the other way around......that is the case in Pakistan, not here in Canada so live with it. The Pakistanis are certainly dealing with their military at the moment....in the courts!
 
The big question I have is why were our military members supporting the American military in Iraq when it was clearly a decision of our government to publicaly state that we here in Canada would not support the Iraq invasion by the Americans? Who paid these Canadian military exchange commanders to engage in Iraq? The Canadian public purse???
Lots of questions go unanswered and our media doesn't appear to seek out the answers for us, who do we turn to for answers? Should we pay our soldiers to fight wars that have been denounced by our government?
 
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jade_lee said:
The big question I have is why were our military members supporting the American military in Iraq when it was clearly a decision of our government to publicaly state that we here in Canada would not support the Iraq invasion by the Americans?
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Asked and answered repeatedly. The Government of Canada posts military and civil servants to other countries quite often. The US is no exception. A posting on exchange in the US is no different than a posting to the UN or NATO. The Liberal government you are such a fan of was the one that refused to recall personnel after making public statements that they would not participate in the war in Iraq. As to why, you would have to ask Jean Chretien and Liberal Cabinet at the time why they felt it necessary to put in such hypocritical policies.

jade_lee said:
Who paid these Canadian military exchange commanders to engage in Iraq? The Canadian public purse???
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Yes. Like every other public servant their pay cheque comes from the government pay system.


jade_lee said:
Lots of questions go unanswered and our media doesn't appear to seek out the answers for us, who do we turn to for answers? Should we pay our soldiers to fight wars that have been denounced by our government?
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We should if our government secretly decides that they should fight and its decision not to participate in conflict is merely for domestic public consumption.

As for the media, as nfitz pointed out, there was plenty of coverage at the time. Only you are seeing fire where there is no smoke.
 
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Mods,

Once again, I petition you to close this thread. It has moved on well beyond anything about General Hillier. It has become one of jade_lee's many soapboxes with the exception that in this thread even jade_lee is putting up posts that are not even tangentially related to the topic at hand. Jade_lee already has several soapboxes. Can we cut them down to a few?
 
kEiThZ said:
Mods,

Once again, I petition you to close this thread. It has moved on well beyond anything about General Hillier. It has become one of jade_lee's many soapboxes with the exception that in this thread even jade_lee is putting up posts that are not even tangentially related to the topic at hand. Jade_lee already has several soapboxes. Can we cut them down to a few?
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I partially agree - as such, I have merged the two current Afghanistan threads to one.
 
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