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A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYTimes

Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

Why do you care less what the NYT says? Is that actually true? Is it the NYT in particular, or critics in general?
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

Quote on the radio from David Mirvish: Reviews were mixed for Mama Mia, and it stuck around for five years.
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

Oh ya, are theatre critics the same critics that go see "real" theatre?" Wouldn't most critics hate all this stuff, like many did Mama Mia? Or is there the theatre critic equivolent of the people who review crappy hollywood movies and give them good ratings?
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

Well, it still remains to be seen whether they're "good bad" reviews or "bad bad" reviews. After all, there've been Mirvish flops as well as successes--trouble is, when one carries a generic jaundice t/w *all* such megamusical fare, issues such as "hit" versus "flop" get buried in the ooze.

BTW I speak as one of the jaundiced. (And it's funny how those who, like me, are quite lenient t/w pop music fare and bubblegum junk, nevertheless can't cotton up t/w the Andrew Lloyd Webber school of megamusicality...)
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

"Why do you care less what the NYT says? Is that actually true? Is it the NYT in particular, or critics in general?"

I know you warned about the (snobbery) but: All theatre critics in general - I've only ever seen one show like this and it won't matter what some cloistered snob in Manhattan says. The only way I'd go out and see it is if several people whose opinions I value (and journalists are not among them) say it's good. But as has been said, it'll stick around for a year or two just feeding off of tourist groups, LOTR fans, etc., so only long-term, 'Cats'-like longevity is dependent on it actually being a good show, or at least enough word of mouth that it's decent (such as "you should see LOTR" "is it good?" "I don't know, I never saw it, but everone else did").

"It isn't serious theatre, despite the presence of Brent Carver in a long white nightie."

So Gandalf is merely the Countess from "Lilies" with a beard instead of a parasol? *shudders*

Who's playing Arwen and Frodo?
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

Arwen = Carly Street.
Frodo = James Loye.
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

Why do you care less what the NYT says? Is that actually true? Is it the NYT in particular, or critics in general?

Why the hostility to the NYT?

Here is the review:

March 24, 2006
THEATER REVIEW
Tolkien's 'Lord of the Rings,' Staged by Matthew Warchus in Toronto
By BEN BRANTLEY
TORONTO — An hour or so into what feels like eons of stage time, one wise, scared little hobbit manages to express the feelings of multitudes. "This place is too dim and tree-ish for me," mutters a round-ish, twee-ish creature named Pippin, groping through a shadowy forest in the second act of the very expensive, largely incomprehensible musical version of "The Lord of the Rings," which opened Thursday at the Princess of Wales Theater here.

You speak not the half of it, O cherub-cheeked lad of Middle Earth. The production in which you exist so perilously is indeed a murky, labyrinthine wood from which no one emerges with head unmuddled, eyes unblurred or eardrums unrattled. Everyone and everything winds up lost in this $25 million adaptation of J. R. R. Tolkien's cult-inspiring trilogy of fantasy novels. That includes plot, character and the patience of most ordinary theatergoers.

Presumably, there is a contingent out there that will regard this curiously homespun-feeling behemoth as a sort of sacred ritual. Indeed, perhaps the sanest approach to this production, adapted from Tolkien's books by an international team of artists led by the British director Matthew Warchus, is to look upon it as an arcane religious pageant that can be fully appreciated only by the initiated. That would be those familiar enough with the source material (preferably to the point of being fluent in Elvish) to understand the totemic significance of the amorphous shapes that pass through an eternal, vision-taxing twilight, murmuring dialogue that, when intelligible, brings to mind vintage "Prince Valiant" comic strips.

Let me hasten to add that I was not a Tolkien virgin when I walked into the Princess of Wales Theater. I read the "Ring" trilogy (and its delightful predecessor, "The Hobbit") at least twice when I was a child. And I sat as happily as a little boy at a PlayStation through the more than nine hours of Peter Jackson's three-part movie version. Had I not, I would not have begun to have made sense of many of this production's aspiring edge-of-the-seat moments, including the final climax in which the pesky ring that causes so much trouble is destroyed. (Please don't write to say I've spoiled the show for you; believe me, I'm doing you a favor.)

The woman who accompanied me to the show had no prior acquaintance with the world of Tolkien, and she gave up on trying to make sense of the story early in the first of the show's three acts. As a fashion editor, she was able to derive some pleasure from discovering parallels between the costumes and current style trends. If you lack such resources to draw upon, you may find this "Lord of the Rings" is less like a spectacular fashion show than a seriously long (more than three and a half hours) drill team competition for high schools devoted to the nurturing of geeks, goths and hippies manqué who are really annoyed that they were born too late for Woodstock.

In following the adventures of the hobbit Frodo Baggins (James Loye) in his quest to save the ancient world of Middle Earth from the forces of darkness, this "Lord of the Rings" makes extensive use of a 40-ton stage (featuring 17 elevators) that revolves and rises, more than 500 often cumbersome costumes (Rob Howell designed them and the sets) and vast projected images that bring to mind much-magnified biology class slides. The program credits give prominent place to moving-image direction (the Gray Circle), illusions and magic effects (Paul Kieve), special-effects design (Gregory Meeh) and a "Tolkien creative consultant" (Laurie Battle).

Yet for all the technology, the show's look is often reminiscent of an arts and crafts fair. Its dominant images include a giant, twiggish wreath that is occasionally lowered to frame exposition sequences (there are lots of those); some striking, if ambiguous, Julie Taymor-ish puppetlike assemblages; sky-scraping stilt walkers; levitating fairies; and myriad long poles carried by cast members, meant to signify everything from trees (natch) to processional majesty.

The show's mantra could be, "Speak softly and carry a big stick." A lot of the book and lyrics (by Shaun McKenna and Mr. Warchus) are sacrificed to the distortions of electronic amplification and booming background music. The dialogue that can be heard often sounds as if it comes from a Hollywood medieval sword-banger of 50 or 60 years ago. ("How often we sang together before you left my father's house." Or: "You are wise to ask, Frodo son of Drogo." Or: "Then there is a lady in the golden wood, as old tales tell.")

As for the songs — well, do not be so foolish, mortals, as to think they are mere show tunes. Created by the polyglot team of A. R. Rahman (of "Bombay Dreams" and Bollywood), Varttina (a Finnish folk group) and Christopher Nightingale, the musical numbers are often solemn, incantatory affairs, suggesting Enya at an ashram. Many of them are performed at least partly in Elvish. (If you think that means a lisping Presley imitator, this is definitely not the show for you.) Others recall the folky parody tunes from the spoof documentary "A Mighty Wind."

The choreography is by Peter Darling, whose work for the London hit "Billy Elliot: The Musical" is breathtaking, but who here seems stymied by the sheer size of his ensemble. There is a protracted Morris dance-style sequence in a quaint tavern, in which the cast members refreshingly hoist benches instead of the usual poles, and much semaphoric gesturing and slow-motion writhing for the fight sequences. Since Paul Pyant's lighting tends to the crepuscular, it is not always possible to tell who is fighting whom.

Nor is it easy for the cast members to register emotions legibly amid the gloaming. The show's best-known actor is Brent Carver (a Tony winner for "Kiss of the Spiderwoman"), whose hole-pitted line readings as the magisterial wizard Gandalf inappropriately suggest that the old sage is suffering from a Hamlet-like crisis of resolution. Evan Buliung is better cast as the action-figure hunk Strider (a k a Aragorn), and the audience clearly warms to the scenery chewing of Michael Therriault as the whiny, sneaky Gollum, who here looks like an unraveling mummy and sounds like Renfield, Dracula's old sidekick. Mr. Loye does what he can as Frodo, as does Peter Howe as his loyal companion, Sam, but they are no match for the shadows that swamp the stage.

You may be interested to know that, according to a news release, the dress worn by the beauteous Galadriel (Rebecca Jackson Mendoza, who sings of Elvish good will in the style of Celine Dion) has more than 1,800 hand-sewn beads. (The release does not stipulate whether nuns were the seamstresses or if they lost their vision to the work.)

But the show's must-have fashion items are clearly the springing shoes worn by some of the evil Orcs (at least I think that's what they were), who look like a squadron of vengeful houseplants trained in the martial arts. The shoes allow their wearers to leap high into the air merely by flexing their knees. This action provides some of the scarce occasions when "The Lord of the Rings" feels other than Middle Earth-bound.


All the papers seemed to pan the play.

The reason this matters is that some percentage of the potential audience will not bother buying tickets and travelling to Toronto because of these reviews. If the local and international press (like Detroit, Cleveland, New York, etc) gave it rave reviews, we probably would benefit greatly by having more tourists spend their wealth in our fair city.
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

Aye me. I was keeping my fingers crossed for this one, the spill-off could have been great for the city. There's definately a buzz about when a show is hot and well received, and with a promising production of Hair opening at CanStage, and Soulpepper in their new digs theatre seemed to be rebounding in the city again. Oh well, lets face it the show wont close any time too soon, though I don't think I'll bother to see it. I'm not exactly an LOTR geek but I'm not a theatre snob either. I really don't mind pap as long as it's entertaining pap, but paying over a hundred dollars a ticket to sit in a theatre for 3 hours to watch a lot of effects that we've already seen in Lion King or Cirque just doesn't grab me. Have I mentioned how great Soulpepper's 'Our Town' was? Sometimes a ladder and a bare stage are very effective...
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

From the Star:

Rings may be critic-proof?
Despite lukewarm reception, David Mirvish says ticket sales doubled yesterday, while British investors expressed interest
Mar. 25, 2006. 08:26 AM
MARTIN KNELMAN
ENTERTAINMENT COLUMNIST


Middle-earth may have been nuked, but you would never know it from the bubbly mood of the producers the morning after The Lord of the Rings had its world premiere at the Princess of Wales Theatre.

"We had a great morning at the box office," says Kevin Wallace, the British producer who initiated this massive project and has controlled almost every detail of its development.

Indeed, says David Mirvish, who persuaded Wallace to choose Toronto as the place to launch the show, last night's ticket sales were double for those on an average day — raising hopes this could be that most golden of geese, the critic-proof show.

Moreover, Wallace reveals, the very morning supposedly devastating reviews were published (in the Toronto Star, The Globe and Mail, The New York Times and other papers) he had calls from London from prospective investors hoping it might not be too late for them to buy a share of the London production, scheduled to open in 2007.

So much for the notion that negative-to-mixed reviews would leave the producers ready to post closing notices.

Undeniably, the numbers that govern the show are as awesome as its stagecraft and special effects. With a top ticket price of $125, LOTR has a potential weekly gross of $1.8 million at the 2,000-seat Princess of Wales. But it also has scarily high running costs — more than $1 million per week.

If the show plays to near-capacity audiences, it would take a year to recoup its $28 million cost. If attendance falls below 60 per cent, it would lose money — and the producers might be forced to shut it down.

But for the next few months, the show is protected by the attendance of 43,000 Mirvish subscribers and other ticket buyers who figure in its $15 million advance. That should carry the show through the end of June. The summer months should attract tourist and family audiences from Canada and the United States.

The first real crunch could come next fall — at which point the show will succeed or fail on the basis of word of mouth and on an aggressive ad campaign.

But if The Lord of the Rings keeps going, it wouldn't be the first time a musical survived negative press and went on to enjoy a long and profitable run.

Among the shows that turned out to be critic-proof were Hair, Les Miserables, The Phantom of the Opera and Mamma Mia!

Whether The Lord of the Rings will join that club remains to be seen, but Wallace and Mirvish have grounds for optimism.

For one thing, there were a number of favourable print notices — in Time magazine, National Post, The Times of London. On radio and TV, the vast majority of commentators were overwhelmingly favourable.

As Wallace notes, this show is not geared to a traditional audience that cares about reviews. It caters to people ready for something completely different — astounding spectacle and stagecraft with a "Wow!" factor.

"In terms of demographics, this show is written and produced for Everyman," Wallace says. "It is popular entertainment, and we're reaching out to millions of people, most of whom don't go to the theatre more than once or twice a year."

Certainly the mood of the opening-night crowd on Thursday was euphoric and enthusiastic. Most clearly loved the show. Okay, that was an invited audience — but many were sophisticated theatregoers.

A market research study three weeks ago confirmed that people who came to see the show were responding mostly to radio and TV ads — and 95 per cent of them would highly recommend it.

"The generosity of a first-night audience comes with a sense of occasion," Wallace says. "But there was a sense of chemistry between actors and audience."

That phenomenon is something Wallace & Co had been seeing repeatedly in the last few weeks of previews. There are a lot of people out there who know the material from the books or movies.

Mirvish says he is not losing any sleep worrying about the money he risked on the show.

"The ultimate reaction that counts is the audience," he says. "I knew we faced the possibility of negative comment, but starting this ambitious show here was a big step up for Toronto."

No matter what, it's clear Toronto has attracted the world's attention. How often does Toronto get written up in Time, Newsweek, The New York Times and the London papers?

"I took a substantial financial risk, and so did (promoter) Michael Cohl," Mirvish says. "But I'm satisfied we behaved in a prudent manner. This is a show we felt proud of, and I enjoy being part of it."

AoD
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

Scarb> I mostly agree with you -- our friends are such because they have similar sensibilities as us, and thus their opinions are worth a lot.

It' s just throwaway comments like "cloistered snob" about where a writer is coming from. Do you know, in fact, that he's a cloistered snob? Or is just big city new yorkers in general? etc.

British theatre critic Kenneth Tynan, who championed the "angry young man" plays and Waiting for Godot in the 1950s had this to say about his profession: "A critic is a man who knows the way but can't drive the car."
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

I was a little disconcerted by scarb's comment that "If TV news on every channel started claiming it was bad, then people might avoid it, although the newspeople must realize that actively bashing it hurts the city."

Sort of like criticising the war hurts America?

The primary test of a musical is that it be a good time. So musicals generally don't suffer from critics who complain of saccharine songs or silly lyrics, or a generalised artlessness. But "long and dull" never bodes well.

I worry about this, because it would be unfortunate if Toronto were to be globally associated with second-rate first-run theatre.
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

Toronto has been a big theatre town for a long time now. People make it seem as if the city's fortunes rest on LOTR. They don't. So the show isn't getting good reviews...it's disappointing but it's just one show. There will be many other shows in the future, and there are a lot of good shows around the city now.
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

"Why the hostility to the NYT?"
"It' s just throwaway comments like "cloistered snob" about where a writer is coming from. Do you know, in fact, that he's a cloistered snob? Or is just big city new yorkers in general? etc."

I didn't mean to be hostile, I just sometimes have an extremely low opinion of critics (which in itself might be a hostile attitude - oh well, sue me). And it was a throwaway comment, but no more a throwaway than half the review. I stopped reading the NYT review when I got to "crepuscular" - it's clearly not written for people like me...it needs to be filtered down through 'lesser' media first. The conflict between me and theatre reviewers is really non-existant, anyway...I never see shows, so I never read the reviews. I just thought you were initially talking about people like me, someone who never goes to shows but might go to LOTR (I probably won't, now that tudararms says it costs over a hundred bucks) and would therefore have an opinion outside of the usual loop.

"Sort of like criticising the war hurts America?"

Hmm, a little; maybe it hurts a bit now but it's valuable or even needed in the long run. But if lots of people do enjoy the show, it's really kind of counterproductive to only feature stories about how every reviewer hated it. They should reflect real opinions and reviewers don't hold the only ones that matters. Opposing views are needed, as long as they have reason to be in opposition. Reviewers may hate it, but if the teeming masses like it, the reviewers are wrong. This is moot in the end, though, because it seems the crowds may not love it.

I'm just saying the NYT review is irrelevant to whether or not I go see it, but I know it has the potential to influence all kinds of other media outlets and then seriously hurt word of mouth and the show's long-term prospects, or even short-term if it's as bad as it seems (maxy505 says it stunk - a thousand reviewers could say it's great but if one regular person says it's bad, I'd avoid it). Spmarshall says interviewees on the CBC mostly liked it, so it may be a case where all the reviews are bad but people still go out and see it in droves (like the recent Star Wars movies) rather than a case where the reviews say it's embarassingly bad and the negative buzz manages to prevent anyone from seeing it (like Glitter or Gigli).
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

To me, the NYT review seems more "meh" than "bleh". Nothing to get *that* hot and bothered about. Sometimes, we make more out of these so-called "bad reviews" than we ought to--especially when they're more "jaundiced" than "bad" per se...
 
Re: A Revitalized Toronto Pins Its Hopes on the Hobbits: NYT

^ indeed. Especially because mediocre reviews don't get entered onto a show's permanent file. If it's sufficiently trashed on opening night, then the media will never mention the show again without the clause " - which was savaged by critics - ". Adding the phrase " - which opened to lukewarm reviews - " to a sentence doesn't have the same appeal to writers.

Reviewers may hate it, but if the teeming masses like it, the reviewers are wrong.

You're assuming that a reviewer's job is to predict the response of the masses. I think a reviewer's job is more to review according to her or his own lights and expertise, for the benefit of like-minded readers. The Times reviews for - surprise - Times readers. The Globe reviews for Globe readers. The Sun reviews for people who like boobies. And so it goes.
 

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