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407 Transitway

Honestly, I think if they were going to try for something REM like in a financial sense, it would have happened with the Ontario Line - that line absolutely would, without a doubt, be profitable for a private operator if we subsidize the tunnels.

My guess is that yeah, they will just ignore the EA time requirements seeing as they have been issuing updates on the core segment as RER changes things.
 
Bureaucromancer said:
Honestly, I think if they were going to try for something REM like in a financial sense, it would have happened with the Ontario Line - that line absolutely would, without a doubt, be profitable for a private operator if we subsidize the tunnels.

My guess is that yeah, they will just ignore the EA time requirements seeing as they have been issuing updates on the core segment as RER changes things.
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I find the feasibility of that quite low however. The reason why the REM worked in terms of private investment is because ridership was basically guaranteed. You are building a new radial line into the downtown, replacing an extremely successful commuter rail line in the process thus getting all of its ridership. A 407 Metro would be a totally different beast. Its ridership will be a lot more peculiar and might take time to build up the right ridership. While the demand might be there for 40m long automated trains along the corridor, I find it difficult to forsee a private firm investing money into it the same way as was done with the REM. Its frankly way too risky.
 
I know they are completely separate projects, but i felt like they should’ve build the right of way transitway at the same time the 407 extension was in the process of construction. It would’ve made the 400 to Kennedy, and Kennedy to Brock segments a whole lot more motivating and simpler to get shovels on the ground, and we would’ve had the whole 407 east corridor enhanced by 2030-2035.
 
The other thing that I kind of feel has been missed in the last 72 hours or so is that a big appeal of a busway for the 407 is that there really isn't that much in terms of origins or destinations directly on the 407 corridor. The existing buses don't just run line-haul service the length of the highway, and thats for good reason. While it IS true that conventional long haul plus location connections to stations could be pieced together in most places, the reality is that the you'd be looking at making a lot of long distance "choice" riders gain multiple transfers, each to a new system where they now have one or two seat rides contained on GO. Never mind how much the local system in many of the relevant locations already struggle to feed GO trains.

All of which is to say that with everything being as it is, this is a corridor that probably does make more sense as an enhancement to the buses that already run in it with an eye to maybe allowing rail if it is eventually necessary than forcing rail now. Especially given that the Mississauga Transitway already exists.
 
Bureaucromancer said:
The other thing that I kind of feel has been missed in the last 72 hours or so is that a big appeal of a busway for the 407 is that there really isn't that much in terms of origins or destinations directly on the 407 corridor. The existing buses don't just run line-haul service the length of the highway, and thats for good reason. While it IS true that conventional long haul plus location connections to stations could be pieced together in most places, the reality is that the you'd be looking at making a lot of long distance "choice" riders gain multiple transfers, each to a new system where they now have one or two seat rides contained on GO. Never mind how much the local system in many of the relevant locations already struggle to feed GO trains.

All of which is to say that with everything being as it is, this is a corridor that probably does make more sense as an enhancement to the buses that already run in it with an eye to maybe allowing rail if it is eventually necessary than forcing rail now. Especially given that the Mississauga Transitway already exists.
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While I do agree that busses do make a lot of sense, I don't think that something like 40m long REM trains is that bad either. Its a bit pricier but you get hyper frequent service with minimal operating costs and a much smoother ride, and it scales well since you can actively push for more development since its rail based infrastructure.
 
Bureaucromancer said:
The stations would in quite a few cases be huge operational improvements in the current operations. The ea even mentions but makes no real provision for building stations piecemeal. I'd really quite like to see Uthe interchange stations built immediately with bus only ramps, never mind general highway conditions.
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For sure. The value of this project is allowing buses to stop easier at stations. I wouldn’t be surprised if a bus wasted several mins getting off the highway to stop at 407 station or RHC, especially in traffic. Stopping at Unionville GO or Bramalea might waste even more time, maybe 5-10 mins if traffic is bad. Add those together and you’re looking at maybe 20 mins slower trips for long journeys.
 
I wonder if the 407 Transitway will allow for any bus only ramps on Highway 400? The existing plans don't seem to have anything. Currently, there is no easy way for those busses to serve the Highway 407 Station terminal.
 
Pre Covid-19, how full was the Highway 407 parking lot? I guess if they need to "start construction" on the project, expanding the parking could be a good way to do it?
Yeah, agreed with the above - given the EA's, bits of this project seem ripe for CPDQ or even Highway 407 themselves to try and pull a fast one build this project themselves for profit...
Screenshot 2021-02-16 at 17.06.03.png
 
innsertnamehere said:
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Is this supposed to prove something?

I’ve lived in burlington for 90% of my life. The other 10% in Toronto.

It takes me 10 minutes to drive to the go station 15 if there is traffic. There is no reason taking a bus to the station should take 50 minutes.

From my house I have to walk 10 mins to a bus stop and then that bud goes through three different neighbourhoods with 40km roads to get me to the station.
 
I've been trying to find some information on this project online but I'm not finding much... anyone know what the deal is with this? Will it be happening or is it just like a theoretical idea at the moment?
 
Don Coyote said:
I've been trying to find some information on this project online but I'm not finding much... anyone know what the deal is with this? Will it be happening or is it just like a theoretical idea at the moment?
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Here is the website with all of the information including EAs (which have design plates if you're interested in rough alignments and station designs): https://407transitway.com/

As for what's happening with the project, allegedly Metrolinx is working on it in the background, and whilst the original EA lapsed, the ford government has apparently passed a bill that lets Metrolinx use older EAs for longer.
Beyond that, the only thing really new would be the 2051 regional transportation plan which showcased both an orbital rail line, and an "Ontario Loop" that extended the Ontario Line to (presumably) run along the 407. This suggests that Metrolinx is looking at possibly building it as a rail line off the get go rather than as a busway.
 
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