407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link

[steveintoronto]

I've been scouring the web for anything *substantial* on the "freight bypass"...nothing. So far, no mention in the Globe or Star, but *scant* mention is being given in some local press:

[...]
The Premier said her government is very confident the commitment will be met now that there's an agreement in principle between transit agency Metrolinx and CN that will result in the construction of a new freight line to run from Bramalea to about Milton.

The new line means CN eventually will move most of its freight traffic from a section of the Kitchener corridor the company owns — roughly between Georgetown and Bramalea — to a new corridor. That will free up capacity for more GO service through Brampton to Kitchener.

"This is a major hurdle," Wynne said of the freight dilemma with CN. "This is a very good agreement and a very good starting point for getting over that hurdle."

But even if that hurdle is cleared, there are still eight years to wait for two-way, all-day trains. At least, as Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca said, the agreement with CN and the ultimate building of a new freight line will permit the province to electrify the GO train service all the way to Kitchener.

But we're talking 2024 or beyond for that to happen.

That doesn't immediately help Kitchener's Ian Graham, who attended Tuesday's announcement as he dreaded a mid-afternoon drive to downtown Toronto to meet a friend. Eight years can seem like an excruciating wait.

"It's too bad they can't get this going sooner," said Graham, an environmental advocate.[...]

http://www.therecord.com/news-story...-two-way-all-day-go-train-service-wynne-says/

That hissing sound? It's the balloon deflating...

 

[crs1026]

I have seen maps somewhere - I'm not imagining this, I swear ! - showing provision for a right of way curving up around the truck stop and eastwards from there. The north end of Milton is filling up with development, and the potential corridor may have been lost. I will go looking for this.

I agree that the most direct route is to get back on the original CN row through the park, and turn right at the Galt Sub.... but this may create conflict with some of the east-west underpasses as the tracks would have to return to grade. I wonder how Milton would feel about the intrusion into that park.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

I have seen maps somewhere - I'm not imagining this, I swear ! -

Yeah, I have too....albeit, in retrospect, one wonders how credible they are. It *may* have been a Gormick article somewhere.

Meantime:

Link: http://www.insidehalton.com/news-st...ncements-in-milton-come-with-hefty-price-tag/

Is from September 2015. It may give a ballpark idea of what this would cost, but offsets make that very nebulous. CP might be looking at this, still digesting costs, actual and virtual, and might have an answer later.

What is most notable at this point is the complete lack of punch in the media. The "two more trains a day" is the news, not the Link. Now that's concerning...

 

[muller877]

Not "dumb" at all. You are *right* to be asking this question, and others! Watch this like a hawk. It's all a bit too slick for my liking. My sixth-sense is buzzing, and of course, you're looking for an answer where there are none at this time. That was my immediate question too, so had to listen doubly hard to the live announcement carried live on Youtube until I heard "Bramalea to Milton". I'd only caught the live proceedings half way through, and it was really cagey and ambiguous until Del Duca got asked at the end from a journalist and had to state it clearly. The fact that a journo was asking for clarification is interesting in itself. It wasn't just me noting the ambiguity throughout. (Edit to Add: A surmise: CP was originally meant to be included, but things got complicated for whatever reason, so they had to 'dance' around not mentioning CP)

Here's what I presume, partly from what I've gathered previously: Between the Milton alignment (Old Hamilton NW) up to Georgetown, a new cutoff is to be installed to a *new track* (this was always on the table) to parallel CP until the cutoff along the Hwy 407/Hydro One xmssn corridor to Bramalea. This is still pretty nebulous though...it could we be that negotiations are still ongoing with CP, and you can bet your leaky booties it's to do with value of some sort. Another poster has linked to a dollar figure, I suspect it's not that simple, but *assigning value* to assets is most likely what much of this is about. For instance, a proposal might go: (CN to CP or vice versa) "We'll provide the RoW between X and Y for single track if you provide RoW between V and W". Add in the Province and the Feds, and who contributes what, and/or overhead rights, running rights, etc and you have a complicated negotiation, and indeed, Transport Canada might have to intercede to mandate some aspects to make this happen. 'Arbitration' with a dose of legislation.

Here's something I think I can state for some other posters too: The announcement was *necessarily* premature. The lack of any sign of CP could be for many reasons, but one thing undeniable is that the absence was *incredibly conspicuous*.

I suspect a number of us are scouring to get something more substantial on this beyond the facile headline announcement.

Thanks...that what I thought.

So going through Milton to the 407 there would be 1 track used/owned by CN, 2 used/owned by CP and 1 used by GO (plus CN off-peak). May have just enough room for the 4 tracks in the current ROW. But if CN wants a second track some commercial/industrial land would need to be expropriated (and with the planned yard in Milton I assume they do).

CN would have the south track through Milton. Before Trafalgar (Toronto West Terminal) CN would have to fly-under both the CP and GO Train tracks so that they are on the North side (works well for their yards north of the 407).

GO has the north tracks in Milton. GO would have to go OVER the new CP 407 bypass tracks (Lisgar station will be above grade). You can't lower GO nor CP due to the 10th and Winston Churchill road crossings. Is there enough room for the fly-over (407 underpass)? Or do we need it since Milton won't have all day service?

Now in the 407 bypass CN has the north tracks and CP has the south.

Expensive. And Milton GO (plus future Cambridge GO) riders will not be happy killing any future potential growth in their corridor.

 

[steveintoronto]

Thanks...that what I thought.

Without fully digesting your text, I've found the map that Paul and I, and many others have seen that shows an *official* proposal, not just 'someone's dream map'.

https://www.milton.ca/MeetingDocuments/Council/agendas2015/rpts2015/ENG-020-15 The Missing Link Final Report.pdf pdf page 4

Edit to Add: I've tried to cut and paste it here with no success. Some of those more adept at software might be able to, so please do, it's important for discussion.

 

[crs1026]

I remember a more detailed map, possibly from Milton zoning documents. I checked both the Milton and Halton official plans and did not find any provision for a future rail corridor. It does appear that the land north of the north side of Steeles Ave is not slated for development, so a line could be built parallel to Steeles over to the 407.

I don't know how literally to read the lines on those maps. They appear to imply a new line along the north side of the Galt Sub. The text from that business case document does provide more detail

1. Construction of a new three track rail corridor, the Missing Link, between CN’s Halton Subdivision at Halwest and CP’s Galt Subdivision west of the Lisgar GO Station. The Missing Link will start at CN’s Malport Yard, include a rail/rail grade separation with GO Transit’s Kitchener line and run between Highway 407 and the Hydro Transmission line to the Mississauga/Milton border. Many alignment variations are possible, some of which may require Hydro Line relocation. The entire route will be grade separated and will not create new road level crossings.
   
   
2. Expansion of CP’s Galt Subdivision. This will include a rail/rail grade separation allowing GO Transit trains to cross over the Missing Link. It will include five tracks, three freight and two passenger, between the Lisgar GO Station and the Milton GO Station. West of the Milton GO Station three freight tracks are proposed to the new Milton Connection.
   
   
3. New connection from CP’s Galt Subdivision to CN’s Halton Subdivision allowing CN trains to return to the Halton Subdivision.

- Paul

 

[dunkalunk]

I have a question....may be dumb...

I always assumed that they needed both CN and CP to sign on before this could happen. In particular....Milton. How is the CN line going to get from Milton to the 407? I always thought the CN line would turn onto the CP ROW through Milton. And then just before Winston Churchill it would use the Hydro ROW to get to the 407. (and CP would likewise use the CN line in the east)

Without CP on board, how will the CN get to the 407? A new ROW either south or north of Milton? It'll certainly add to the cost.

Grade separations may be problematic if the CP and CN lines are on the same corridor through Milton. And even though it follows a historic right-of-way, It may also not be optimal for CN's track connection to be made at rough Livingston Park due to required grade separations, property acquisition, and the environmentally sensitive landscape.

If the alignment was to be built only for CN (which is possible), an alignment that hugs the south side of the 401 may be more optimal, as it uses CN's existing grade separations of Martin, Steeles, and the CP Galt Sub.

 

[mdrejhon]

I've been scouring the web for anything *substantial* on the "freight bypass"...nothing. So far, no mention in the Globe or Star, but *scant* mention is being given in some local press.

Not surprising -- the press does notnquite realize just how big a Freight Bypass is.

They will come in due time. I have seen this lull before the storm before.

Wait for a federal press release that includes and "billion" ad "CN" in the same paragraph. Within 36 months.

The good news is the ball is obviously rolling with many stakeholder's blessing.

 

[salsa]

Without fully digesting your text, I've found the map that Paul and I, and many others have seen that shows an *official* proposal, not just 'someone's dream map'.

https://www.milton.ca/MeetingDocuments/Council/agendas2015/rpts2015/ENG-020-15 The Missing Link Final Report.pdf pdf page 4

Edit to Add: I've tried to cut and paste it here with no success. Some of those more adept at software might be able to, so please do, it's important for discussion.

Thanks for finding these maps.


Ownership of rail lines

Existing freight routes and GO Transit lines

The Missing Link

 

[salsa]

And here's an animation showing the difference between the freight bypass vs the situation today.

 

[mpd618]

Now that the province has gone public about an agreement with CN, does that compel CP to come to the table? Maybe this isn't just publicity, but also a tactic to get CP to negotiate, lest it get left out and miss out on the benefits to them.

 

[steveintoronto]

Now that the province has gone public about an agreement with CN, does that compel CP to come to the table? Maybe this isn't just publicity, but also a tactic to get CP to negotiate, lest it get left out and miss out on the benefits to them.

Yeah, I've been considering that aspect, thus my claim earlier "a necessarily premature announcement". But it's clumsy, if that's the intent, and it plays the public for fools. I'm a little ticked, to be honest.

Something I was looking at closely on Google satellite is the feasibility of running a single track down the centre of the 407. Far fetched? Perhaps not...it might be one of the cheaper options combined with widening the the 407 at the same time. What might have to happen in such a case is concrete retaining walls built to contain a derailment. Dangerous on a busy highway? Absolutely, but no more so than on a hydro right of way or adjacent to houses when you think about it.

Something to consider...

Btw: Many thanks for maps Salsa! The animation is superb. Nothing like having a reasonable map (if not absolutely accurate) for reference in discussion. Hopefully, if nothing else, it brings on more discussion, but I wonder if the average plebe 'gets-it'?

 

[mpd618]

Yeah, I've been considering that aspect, thus my claim earlier "a necessarily premature announcement". But it's clumsy, if that's the intent, and it plays the public for fools. I'm a little ticked, to be honest.

If it's what the province is doing, I don't see how that plays the public at all. It indicates a path forward, and CP can choose to be part of it or not, but they presumably have to decide soon if they want to have a seat at the table.

 

[steveintoronto]

Grade separations may be problematic if the CP and CN lines are on the same corridor through Milton. And even though it follows a historic right-of-way, It may also not be optimal for CN's track connection to be made at rough Livingston Park due to required grade separations, property acquisition, and the environmentally sensitive landscape.

If the alignment was to be built only for CN (which is possible), an alignment that hugs the south side of the 401 may be more optimal, as it uses CN's existing grade separations of Martin, Steeles, and the CP Galt Sub.

Great map btw! That exactly depicts something I was considering from intense Google satellite search, and what got me thinking about using the 401/407 centre median, but yours is much more pragmatic, and offers the opportunity for multi-track. It obviously leaves out depending on CP.

If it's what the province is doing, I don't see how that plays the public at all.

No-one is a greater champion of this than I am, it's a superior idea, the 'Ring that binds them All'....but I think a lot of us were hyped by the initial announcement, only to realize it was really not what it was presented as. Do the words "Big, really big" ring a bell from yesterday? This ain't so big. I wish it was.

There's some substance here, but nothing to go to the bank with yet. Perhaps you haven't noticed that the media has almost ignored the "Missing Link" aspect and headlined the "two extra trains a day"?

 

[mpd618]

There's some substance here, but nothing to go to the bank with yet. Perhaps you haven't noticed that the media has almost ignored the "Missing Link" aspect and headlined the "two extra trains a day"?

The media doesn't really understand, and certainly can't convey, the importance of the CN owned portion of the Kitchener Line to getting two-way service to Kitchener. (They similarly don't understand the importance of CP to the feasibility of GO trains to Cambridge.)

The announcement is not the biggest possible deal, but it's a pretty big deal.